Creative Branding and Consistency in Lending: Why Being Yourself Wins

Rachael Tresch [00:00:16]:
Hey, guys, welcome back to lending leadership. I'm Rach. And we have the awesome Mike Whiteaker here. HMA team leader, senior loan officer, five time Scotsman guide winner right here in the house. And I kind of want to get out of the norm today, Mike, if that's okay. I feel like a lot of times we ask the same questions to loan officers, but I kind of want to forget the resume and get down to the nitty gritty, get down to marketing. Just some strategy and I don't know, peel back, peel back the layers a little bit. Sound good?

Mike Whiteaker [00:00:48]:
Let's go. Absolutely.

Rachael Tresch [00:00:49]:
Thanks for being on with me today.

Mike Whiteaker [00:00:51]:
Of course. Thank you.

Rachael Tresch [00:00:53]:
So, okay, first I have to address Mike. Over here. We have a lot of loan officers that have been doing great video content and I love this, this kitschy little fun thing that you've been doing your home buyer tip. So I'm probably, I feel like we need to show a little clip of this right here because, you know, everybody at home can see exactly what I'm talking about. But this is a great moment where you just created something fun and silly and engaging and, and you're always in these different places and moments and you stop and. Home buyer tip. So where'd you get this idea?

Mike Whiteaker [00:01:34]:
Honestly, I, I don't know. Like, I feel like in the deep brain somewhere. I don't know, I. Probably watching some random video, YouTube, Instagram, I, I, I want to put a finger on it, but I don't know, just doing it one day and like, what, what a better way to kind of present the video with something goofy. I wish I could nail down where, what inspired me, but really I, I want it to be goofy because I, as I started doing videos earlier in my career, I realized I was trying to be like, presentable. And as I'm trying to be presentable, I look boring and I look static and I look like I'm not myself, really. So as I'm watching them back, I'm like, well, screw that. Like, let's just try to intentionally do something silly, grab attention.

Mike Whiteaker [00:02:34]:
And I felt more comfortable doing it because knowing I'm going to laugh inside. If you're intentionally trying to be goofy, then it doesn't matter what people think about you, right? Because that was your goal the whole time was to make a laugh or, you know, not, not look like you're trying to be this ultra professional, you know, video choreographer or whatnot. So, yeah, just kind of something in my brain just one day just said, hey, just spin around and yell at the camera and Point at it and say, this is time for a home bar tip. And I did one or two of them. I was like, let's just keep doing it that way. And then it somehow people, they liked it, they enjoyed it, they thought it was fun and kind of became a thing as I talked to colleagues, like, they would say it. So I don't know, it's kind of trying to do its own thing, you know, these days I'm trying to get more creative out of that, that one, you know, space of home buyer tips. But I'm gonna keep doing it though, because I feel like I've created a little niche.

Mike Whiteaker [00:03:30]:
I wanna kind of act on moving forward, though.

Rachael Tresch [00:03:32]:
Yeah. Have you done one where you open the refrigerator and just like, home buyer tip. Like, I want to see, like, open closets and like, oh, home buyer tip. I think that'd be great.

Mike Whiteaker [00:03:40]:
Well, we should. So my wife, who's amazing, who's been helping me my content in the past couple weeks, is kind of diving in deep with me now. She's been having some ideas about, like, transition, you know, videos in terms of, like, starting doing one thing and I'm turning it around. Other time I'm doing something else. It's opening a fridge. All of a sudden you see the opposite side of me and you see my face. So we're trying to get a little more creative. The hard part was with doing those, was finding a different place for me to do it.

Mike Whiteaker [00:04:16]:
I can do it anywhere in the house, but trying to be outside, trying to do something different, going to pool, whatever. We did one in Niagara Falls just randomly, like, I love it. I know. But yeah, just that part was fun too, because see someone out in the world and you see me randomly, I'm sure a stranger will probably walk by, like, what is he doing? But just being unapologetically me to try to stand out in the business.

Rachael Tresch [00:04:44]:
Well, I think that's so huge. And honestly, in this day and age, and this is something we talk a lot about on the show, where there's so much noise, there's so much pulling our attention in so many different areas that you have to be unapologetically yourself. Because if you're not, someone's gonna. Someone else is gonna grab realtors attention, borrowers attention. So doing those little things that people get a glimpse into your personality, a glimpse into who you are, I feel like it breaks down the barrier too, because we know that the mortgage space is such an intense space. It can be very intimidating to. To ask questions and, you know, so I Think that definitely breaks down the barrier where people are like, ah, he's. He's fun, he's silly.

Rachael Tresch [00:05:26]:
I can. He's approachable. I can ask him these. These intense questions.

Mike Whiteaker [00:05:30]:
That's the point, right, Is. Yeah, you create a rapport before you meeting somebody, so they get kind of an inside scoop into who you are, and then they'll be more comfortable talking to you. I truly believe that. And I honestly, I barely hit my stride when it comes to that. I think now is, again, with my wife being involved. We're trying to do that more and more and showing more of my personal life. I oppose this business and just trying to create a brand to people, to recognize people, to feel comfortable coming to me when they need a mortgage or just have questions.

Rachael Tresch [00:06:09]:
It's so funny. I think years ago it was always, no, keep your personal life private and then your business life. Yes, be all buttoned up. But the tables have turned. Learned so much. And you're recently married, so I like that You're. You're. Every time you say my wife, you kind of light up a little bit, which is great.

Rachael Tresch [00:06:24]:
And how. Shelby, she's in some of the videos, too. I love the. If mortgage were a dating app and, you know, swipe it. That's. It's great. It's great. Really creative stuff.

Rachael Tresch [00:06:36]:
So it's probably really fun working together.

Mike Whiteaker [00:06:40]:
It is. Yeah. She was a little nervous to begin with. She doesn't like being on camera, doesn't like hearing her voice. Like, babe, it'll. No, it'll totally be fine. You'll be a rock star. Like, don't worry about it.

Mike Whiteaker [00:06:51]:
Just do your thing. And then, I mean, she didn't hear about it as much because I. She worked from home and whatnot. But I'm out here in the world and I heard so many compliments about, you know, hey, she was a star and she. And got the most views, so that's great.

Rachael Tresch [00:07:06]:
And you know what? I don't think very many people like watching themselves back, like to hear themselves on video. We always sound different. We always look different in our own minds than we see ourselves back. You got to just get out of that, right? You got to get out of our own zone and our own way. And. And I love that. That was the best one, the most. The highest performing video.

Rachael Tresch [00:07:26]:
That's great.

Mike Whiteaker [00:07:28]:
Well, yeah, it was a star. And I'm like, now we have to do more of that. Let's do more of that. Put you in front of the camera more often. Going to have to do the whole you know, just be part of it and maybe create a little tandem that we can kind of dive into together.

Rachael Tresch [00:07:45]:
Well, let's back up. So I mentioned in the beginning, you're five time. You just got your fifth Scotsman Guide Award, that the award's probably coming soon, but you just got notified that you, you, you made the list, which is such a huge honor. What, I mean, how do you even begin to. What's where the words I'm looking for. Okay, let's back that up. So five times Scotsman Guide winner. Give me some insight into, you know, what that means to you, what that has meant in your career and how you've gotten there over and over again.

Rachael Tresch [00:08:22]:
There's, there's major consistency there, Mike. I like that.

Mike Whiteaker [00:08:25]:
Yeah, a lot of good fortune, honestly. A lot of knowing the right people, honestly. I've been lucky enough to partner up with some great individuals and great leadership since my inception into the mortgage business. And it created a lot of good opportunities for me to be able to, as a new loan officer, learn quickly, grow quickly. And, you know, for the first few years of my career, I was more of a loan partner type role. And then it transitioned away from that as I saw the potential with myself, I saw the potential with what I could do and over time just kept pushing and pushing towards that and really with the opportunities, with meeting new clients, new realtors, along the way, providing a level of service to them to where that repeat business would come back, you know, tenfold. Just creating a long lasting good experience for people. It's kind of what I put my hang my hat on, literally, is the experience.

Mike Whiteaker [00:09:36]:
One thing in this business I can control, and it's how I treat people and how their interaction, how their process goes. So if I do that the best way I can, that I know it's going to keep turning into the new year, but I'm very proud of the accomplishment. Um, I have a lot more to go. This is, for me, it feels great. Second I hear about it and it's, it's behind me. I'm gonna be real. Like, I hate to say this, but I don't care about it. Recognition is cool, but once you hear it, hear it once and cool all right.

Mike Whiteaker [00:10:12]:
Off for the next year. Like in this business, doesn't matter what you did before, it's always about what you, what you're doing now and later. So that's always been my focus. Not kind of sitting on, resting on my morals, just more of just keep pushing forward and trying to continue to grow and make it Again next year. That is my goal.

Rachael Tresch [00:10:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's funny, I tell my son's really into basketball right now and has been, and he'll, he'll beat himself up whether he's, you know, having a great game or not a great game or whatever it may be. I'm like, hey, you're, you're only as good as your next, your next basket, your next game. So I love that mentality of constantly looking forward. Don't feel like, oh, well, I made Scotsman Guide and now I've made it. Because I think when we have that mentality of I've arrived, then that's not a good space to be in. So to constantly push forward and constantly have the next milestone to meet, that's.

Rachael Tresch [00:11:11]:
That's the name of the game.

Mike Whiteaker [00:11:14]:
Always be happy with your accomplishments, but don't be content. Don't. Because it's easy to get trapped into that. Oh, you know, life's comfortable, bills are paid, but that's not enough for me. I want more and more for my family and, you know, got a long way to go. I'm just, hopefully just scratching the surface.

Rachael Tresch [00:11:37]:
I love it, Mike. So if we were to shadow you for a week, what do you think there's something that would surprise us about maybe the way you conduct your business or just your day to day. And actually this, this question is inspired by your video that you did recently where people think loan officers have this life where they just get up late and, you know, watch TV and maybe just kind of lounge around. But in reality, that is not, that is not the role or the reality that we live in. It is a very hustle, bustle, constantly going industry. So. And everyone runs their business a little bit differently. So what do you think is something that, that people would be surprised if they were to shadow you for a week?

Mike Whiteaker [00:12:21]:
Surprised? I think you spoke to the video a little bit. Even with my bring her out again in my life when she knows I work hard and, you know, it's a few days a week or not a few days a week, there's maybe once or twice a month I'll work from home, kind of share an office with her. And I think one day recently, you know, it was a Friday and it's busy, really busy, and it's just, it's non stop. Phone, computer, phone, computer, phone, computer, like left and right, left and right, left and right. And she kind of gained a small little, you know, appreciation of like, wow, seeing kind of what I do, you know, on those Busy days, especially to where, like, can't even pick a breath. So something surprise. I mean, outside of just the constant organized chaos of multitasking, you know, hopefully at its finest, I don't know anything surprising. You know, I enjoy the puzzles.

Mike Whiteaker [00:13:36]:
You know, sometimes I'm working on a puzzle, to me it's, you know, trying to figure out how do we fit these shapes together to make it work. And that kind of created side of my mind, which I don't, I don't present organically into the world about being creative, but it comes to a mortgage, you know, I can, I can bring out that creative side of finding some sort of path to success that maybe someone else just can't see. So seeing a vision alone that's in front of me and what may look like something we can't do, turning it into something we can do consistently, always finding a way to go above and beyond helping our clients succeed. So I think that's something that people don't realize that goes into it. I think it's just kind of black and white, like, guideline, no guideline, black and white, yes or no. There's a lot more nuance, I guess I could call it into the job to where it could separate you from the next person. Where they may have not seen a, you know, an angle or a light being in the tunnel. Where we can, you know, especially a lot of people here at HMA can see the light, like, oh, we can do this and make this work.

Mike Whiteaker [00:15:01]:
So.

Rachael Tresch [00:15:02]:
But there's so many different ways to be creative. People think, oh, I'm not creative. And they, their mind automatically goes to marketing or, you know, things video and that, that kind of stuff. The, the typical creative mind, but native mind has, has a way of, of piecing things together. You're probably a great Tetris player or we're a great Tetris player as a kid, right. Of just piecing things together and seeing things from a different angle or aspect. Do you get a lot of those, those deals that come through maybe like where it's a rescue where another loan officer wasn't able to piece it together and then comes to you and you're like Mr. Magician waving your magic wand.

Mike Whiteaker [00:15:45]:
At least one a month.

Rachael Tresch [00:15:46]:
Really?

Mike Whiteaker [00:15:47]:
Yeah, often. I'm very proud of that. Especially Robert, who I'd say kind of followed this footsteps a lot with this market and he trained me a lot. It's always something that he was and still is very good at in terms of, you know, hey, Mr. Lender failed and Mrs. Realtor like, hey, Got this Rush file. Can you save it? I don't know if it can work. And then, you know, when I first got on to the team, like, seeing like, you know, him finding a way until obviously, you know, knowing, knowing guidelines, knowing what can and can't be done, that takes time and knowledge and experience.

Mike Whiteaker [00:16:32]:
Yeah. Oftentimes I get people come to me from other lenders and it's just, and I, I, It's a very, very rare occasion where we can't say that that's great just through. Sometimes it's very simple, sometimes it's more complicated. But with that, you know, I'm, I'm proud of the fact that we can do that. And those clients are so grateful. I have a lot of memories, a lot of, you know, experience I remember, remember from clients who were so thankful that I would get it done for them. But it also takes a team of our op staff, of our underwriters, who also kind of have good, very good perspective when it comes to finding a way to make a loan happen for a client. So I don't take all the credit when it comes to that.

Mike Whiteaker [00:17:21]:
I do take a little bit. But there's more to it than just me saying, hey, we can do it. You know what I mean?

Rachael Tresch [00:17:29]:
Well, sure. I mean, you're definitely the sum of the people around you and making sure that we have good people around us and that we have a team that is all on the same page. That has to feel really good. Because I know so many times we say, well, this isn't just a file. This is a family. There's a family behind this file number, and we can't ever lose sight of that. I mean, I can't imagine we actually. And I know you recently bought a new home yourself.

Rachael Tresch [00:17:58]:
We bought a new home. We've been here almost a year, but I'm in the mortgage business. But going through it yourself, it is very stressful. So I can't imagine having your lender fall through and then, you know, you be on the other side of it, saving the day. I'm sure people never forget that.

Mike Whiteaker [00:18:14]:
Yeah, it's, you know, and we as lenders, we've experienced that in the past where it just didn't work out and it's the worst thing in the world. But you're right. Like I tell people all the time without helping them, I give them my first hand experience of if I bought a home about a year ago too, and process sucked, like, I didn't like it. You know, I know exactly what I have to do, exactly to the teeth. And I didn't enjoy it. But yeah, it's so gratifying. I just wonder. There's one prime example of it that I just.

Mike Whiteaker [00:18:42]:
It's embedded in my brain. The veteran who's moving down from like, I want to say Washington to Florida and deal fell apart with the lender and the. The realtor reached out to me, who's a friend of mine, I call him a friend now for sure. And he's like, hey man, what can we do? Basically the sale of our house fell through and. But that one, you know, it's embedded because of the. The client's reaction. But it was a very simple resolution.

Rachael Tresch [00:19:17]:
Oh, really?

Mike Whiteaker [00:19:18]:
Because I landed just didn't know the guidelines and I knew him and that was just a simple fix like that. I like, yeah, we can do it. It's not a problem. And we did. And then I drove personally to Jacksonville for the closing. About an hour, 30 minutes away. I wanted to see the realtor, my friend. I wanted to see the clients.

Mike Whiteaker [00:19:37]:
I knew they were thankful. And right when I see her for the first time, she runs up. When you get in the car, runs to me and like then her husband too. So normally I shake your hand, but I'm give you a hug. So that was just like one of the most gratifying moments I just truly seeing. Sometimes you call this a thankless business in a way you don't. You know, they're thankful. You know they are.

Mike Whiteaker [00:19:59]:
But really feeling it like, that was with an awesome experience for sure.

Rachael Tresch [00:20:04]:
Yeah, it sounds like it. I mean, when people are running up to you who you've never actually met in life, I mean, that's. That's one of those moments. That's one of those happy moments in life where you just. You savor those. You know, in this digital world that we're in, are you. Are you going to a lot of your closings in person? Is that something that's still. Still really impactful?

Mike Whiteaker [00:20:27]:
Not a lot. Couple of months, really. It's. It's hard, right? So as, you know, leader in the business and someone like, who's strives for growth and strives for success and wants to help as I possibly can, it's impossible to attend those things. Right. Because there's only so many hours in the day. We're here trying to help them get to the table, which is the end all, be all, goal. But once we get there, it's like still trying to help the next family get to the table and get next family get to the table.

Mike Whiteaker [00:20:58]:
And that's always been a focus, so I'd rather make sure everybody gets there. I don't have to necessarily be there to then see them. So once in a while, I will. When I'm cultivating in a relationship, or maybe it's just an experience with that client that, like this one was just, I want to be there to see them. When that time comes, I'll definitely be there. But it's more of kind of build the foundation with the relationship and the realtor. And from there, everybody understands. It's just you're one.

Mike Whiteaker [00:21:31]:
One individual I like to go to more. I definitely would. It's just very hard. I'm looking to do 20, 30 closings a month, which is my goal. That's 60 hours a month we have to spend on closings. So that's a lot of time.

Rachael Tresch [00:21:48]:
Well, I'm actually really glad that you said that. And that's so candid and honest, because a lot of the different conferences and seminars I go to, I think people are, I don't want to say stuck because it's. It's really a matter of how you run your business. Right. But they say, well, I go to every closing and that. And that's great if that's part of your business model and you want to do that. But yeah, if you're doing 20, 30 closings and you. You want to help as many families as possible and.

Rachael Tresch [00:22:14]:
And you've got goals for your own business, it's okay to. To not be at every closing.

Mike Whiteaker [00:22:21]:
Yeah. Like I said, like, you. You think about it from drive time to there and back, plus closing itself. I mean, you're looking to spend at least two hours of your day and to multiply that by, you know, 20 to 30, whatever it is, that's an entire week of work. And it's like, well, then how do I focus on the next person and making sure they're okay and get their house to me? The goal is getting out, getting the clients in the house, make sure they're happy. And I always congratulate them by. Give them a quick call or sh. A quick text, being very thankful, opening myself up to more questions.

Mike Whiteaker [00:22:55]:
Hey, if you're. You're there, call me. It's just. Can become impractical, you know, with someone with me trying to be busier and busier.

Rachael Tresch [00:23:06]:
Well, I honestly, I love that because a lot of the loan officers listening to this podcast who maybe are trying to get to the next level, let that go. You have our permission to let it. Let it go. It's okay.

Mike Whiteaker [00:23:19]:
That New relationship. Go to the first one. Go to the first one. You just have that personalization with that realty you've been chasing. Go to the first one. If they're the ones you're chasing, are probably successful, they understand the business, they understand you can't do that every time. Go there for the first one, cultivate it and then just pick and choose. Like if you have a great experience with a client or one that you know is just.

Mike Whiteaker [00:23:40]:
Maybe it was a struggle file and struggle to challenge. It was like one of those ones where it took an arm and a leg when everybody make it work. And then maybe it's like, hey, let's, let's celebrate this achievement for you, Mr. Client. So you, you know, like how much we all, including the client, work on making this goal happen for you.

Rachael Tresch [00:24:02]:
Yeah. To get you to this point right now. Yeah. And, and, and in those cases. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely be there. Because sometimes just seeing that friendly face and I don't know, it helps kind of ease the whole situation if it has been a stressful time. But yeah, friends, let that go.

Rachael Tresch [00:24:20]:
Let it go for the most part. What are some other things, do you think that loan officers maybe. I don't want to say that going to a closing is something that they would be doing backwards, but what are some things maybe that you see in the market right now that maybe loan officers are doing a little bit, I don't know, making too much work for themselves or doing backwards?

Mike Whiteaker [00:24:47]:
Part of myself wants to not give any advice because we're all competition. Right.

Rachael Tresch [00:24:50]:
So come to hma.

Mike Whiteaker [00:24:53]:
Come to help you out all day? Yeah, that's a good question, Rachel. I don't know. I mean, I know, don't get me wrong, I'm not great at this in terms of structuring your day. I know what I want to accomplish, but I thrive in chaos. I wish I was different. I wish I was. Now I'm very organized. Don't get me wrong, I'm very organized.

Mike Whiteaker [00:25:23]:
I feel like the day is just like it's a whirlwind. It's non stop whirlwind and I'm in it. I'm thriving in it. I'm doing well on it. Um, but I would say, you know, time blocking, stuff like that, like little that could save. I feel like I could save so much time if I didn't do 10 times, 10 things at once.

Rachael Tresch [00:25:40]:
Yeah.

Mike Whiteaker [00:25:40]:
Right. Now, again, do it. Successful at it. I try hard not to do it, but just structuring your day. Let the day run you. Focus on the money making things and goal being, you know, lean on your support system. One thing I'm learning right now is as we have people have loan partners, have assistance, we've got to help us with our team, lean into it as much as possible. Especially as you're reaching the next level of growth where you're having that loan partner, don't be afraid to take a plunge, let go.

Mike Whiteaker [00:26:16]:
Just try to push and push and push more onto your loan partner so you can continue to grow. Um. Cause it's very. Can become very hectic. Um, yeah, I would. I would say that for now. I think if anything else, like, no, but I don't give any too many secrets.

Rachael Tresch [00:26:33]:
Well, and. And so you came from the loan partner seat and really worked your way up. What at one point did you decide, okay, I'm ready for a loan partner now I'm ready to kind of give up the reins, give up some control, delegate. Was that a pivotal moment for you?

Mike Whiteaker [00:26:48]:
A little bit, yeah. I mean, I think it was maybe two years ago that I got put with a loan partner. It's. It's challenging. It's definitely challenging. And it. It takes a lot of shots. For me, I'm very much into being efficient, communicating properly with clients, realtors.

Mike Whiteaker [00:27:10]:
It is hard because not no one's you, no one can be you. And it's hard to understand that. But it's all wise challenge. And it's still challenging to this day. Now I'm getting better at it in terms of, you know, don't, Mike, don't do it. Don't. Don't do the work. Don't do what's in front of you.

Mike Whiteaker [00:27:37]:
Pass it on, pass it, pass it. Be the point guard.

Rachael Tresch [00:27:41]:
That's hard.

Mike Whiteaker [00:27:43]:
Be the point guard, lead the team, distribute. But it's hard because you want things done the right way, at the right time, with the right cadence, with the right, you know, making sure it's right. I don't. Mistakes happen. But, you know, I'm all about just getting it right the first time and also getting it right, getting it efficiently done. Because this was a very quick business. The second you delay something, they're calling Joe Schmo or Rocket or whoever and then doing an app there. And I was.

Mike Whiteaker [00:28:24]:
That was ingrained in my head as a loan partner. Ingrained in my head, like speed to lead, jump on it, get it done. So I can't stand to see things fit. So having that urgency, but knowing, hey, if you have a great loan partner who understands that it's okay to just hand the ball off and then hand it off again and then focus on the things that are truly gonna make you more successful, like your prospecting.

Rachael Tresch [00:28:54]:
Yeah, I imagine. And especially when you, you've been in all seats and you've seen all sides of things, it's hard, it's hard to hand things off. But in order to get to the next level, there's only so many hours in a day. So what's going to be your highest and best use? How are you going to affect the most change? How are you going to affect the most people? So you're doing good, you're doing great.

Mike Whiteaker [00:29:19]:
It's an everyday growth process that I am, I'm loving and enjoying and excited for. I've just hit a new, like a new stage for myself with now creating the full Whitaker Mortgage team. And it's been fun. Quite a challenge and I'm ready to take it on and just kind of see, see the vision that I can see right now and where I can be and a year and two and five. So it's exciting.

Rachael Tresch [00:29:53]:
That is exciting. And I love that you said that because so many times we look at people and we see their success and we think, oh, gosh, they just. I want to, I want to be there. Well, no one gets there overnight. It's a struggle. And there's, there's good months, bad months, good years, bad years. And we learn at every stage of the game, but to constantly keep striving. And the vision.

Rachael Tresch [00:30:15]:
I love that you said that too, Mike. The vision. If you, if you can't see it, then it can't happen. But if you can dream it and you connect with the right team, you connect with the right company that will help you get there. That's everything. So big things in store.

Mike Whiteaker [00:30:31]:
Absolutely. And I'm pumped for it. I really am. And it's again, still building the foundation, which has been fun and challenging and stressful. But I know once the foundation is built, then everything from there is just going to be kind of, you know, rocket ship. Straight up here is what I can envision for myself. So that's what I want. And not to compete with the other people in the company.

Mike Whiteaker [00:31:01]:
You know, being in the top spots is always fun. But, you know, my life is very good. My wife's hair, my sunglasses, very good. So definitely that's all, that's all that matters to me. They're happy, we're happy, Everyone else take care of itself.

Rachael Tresch [00:31:19]:
I love it. Well, everyone, I'm going to link Mike's info down below, so make sure you follow him on all the social media platforms like his awesomely fun videos. And Mike, thank you so much for taking some time today to share your journey and share some input. Put don't forget to like and subscribe everyone. We'll catch you next time on Lending Leadership. Thanks.

Mike Whiteaker [00:31:41]:
Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Rachael Tresch [00:31:43]:
See you guys.