How Top Mortgage Pros Attract Realtors and Build Lasting Partnerships

Dave Holland [00:00:00]:
It's going to be hard to be a top producing loan officer. You don't need to do it yourself. You can have a team to assist and help. But, you know, let's start off with that. You got to be professional, you got to be in it day in and day out and they have to count on you. So I think that's just the baseline.

Robert Fillyaw [00:00:17]:
Hey, welcome to the next episode of Lending Leadership with the Mortgage Pros. Today we're driving into a track first chase and going to share some real life stories of successes and flops. Give you a free playbook on on impactful ways to become a trusted mortgage advisor in your local market. Joining me today as always, Dave Holland. How are you, bud? Good.

Dave Holland [00:00:43]:
We got the two best for today, huh, Robert?

Robert Fillyaw [00:00:45]:
The two best. Don't tell Tom we said that though. He's, I think he's flying back from Pittsburgh, right? He couldn't be on.

Dave Holland [00:00:52]:
He is. We'll see if he listens to it. We're doing this early morning, so I got a little flack that I don't have my podcast mic and my right camera. So to our listeners out there, if the audio doesn't sound crisp and perfect, I'm going to try to enunciate a little bit more. I got a different background on today. I got a little flat footed, couldn't log in. So we're doing our best here.

Robert Fillyaw [00:01:15]:
We're making it happen. We've had to reschedule this because we've been traveling so much and just a lot of fun, moving, shaking things happen, which is exciting. But you know, if you notice, I'm, I'm going to try to keep looking down because I've had to move my camera from where it usually sits because I have a window above me and doing this earlier, the sun's in a different position that's coming in that window, which I don't have a covering for because I've really never needed one before. So yeah, if you guys see me not looking at the camera, we're, we're adapting and overcoming today for mission success, which is critical.

Dave Holland [00:01:48]:
So these podcasts aren't, aren't easy. We just don't, we just don't walk into it. It's not as easy as, as we want it to be every time.

Robert Fillyaw [00:01:56]:
There's a lot that goes into this, man. I think we were naive to how much actually goes into it before we started doing it. And you know, honestly, a big shout out to Rachel Trash for keeping us on task, you know, prepared. And honestly, I think we're 46, 47 episodes in. If it wasn't for her, we would have probably made two or three episodes if that, that may, that, that may even be, you know, a little, that might be ambitious. Ambitious. Yeah. You think?

Dave Holland [00:02:25]:
She was a little annoyed this morning, Robert, when I logged on 10 minutes late, so I had to reboot my computer twice a little bit.

Robert Fillyaw [00:02:31]:
Well, this was, listen, to be fair though, this is after we've rescheduled it like three times. So yeah, show must go on though. So let, let's get into it. Listen, Dave, we, we are, are two guys in this industry that have really strong relationships with our agents. I mean, I literally have agents that if their buyer isn't going to work with me, they have told them in the past, if you're not working with Robert as your lender, I'm not going to be your agent.

Dave Holland [00:02:57]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:02:57]:
Like that level of just dedication and commitment is something pretty awe inspiring and pretty powerful, but it's also something I think relatively rare in our industry. And what's interesting to me is as we've both been in this business a long time, as time has passed, the relationship piece has tended to fall away and it's become more transactional.

Dave Holland [00:03:22]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:03:22]:
With a gimme, gimme, gimme, you're going to pay for my Zillow leads. Are you going to do an msa? I want to open a JV with you. And it's become more of a chase than an attract mindset. So let's talk a little bit about how we've built our realtor relationships. What goes a long way, what, what kind of differentiates us? What, what do you think it is?

Dave Holland [00:03:44]:
Well, I mean, let's start off by, you know, we don't have to get into the MSAs and all those JVs. Those are a little more, more complex for another show fair. You know, I've been doing it for 25 years. You're, you're right there with me. You know, trust is built slowly on fulfilling small promises. Right. Your realtor partners know that they need to count on you in a pinch, that you have to perform. You gotta be professional.

Dave Holland [00:04:14]:
You know, unfortunately in our business, you know, it's not so much a 247 business, but it's definitely seven days a week. You know, my realtors expect me or my team to be on call seven days a week, you know, early in the morning when I get up, you know, into the evening on the weekends. Unfortunately, it's part of our business, it's how we operate and it's There with our realtors, you know, when, when they need us on the weekends, in the evening. So let's start with that premise, right? If you want to be a top producing loan officer and you cannot give that level of service, it's going to be hard to be a top producing loan officer. You don't need to do it yourself. You can have a team to assist and help. But you know, let's start off with that. You got to be professional, you got to be in it day in and day out and they have to count on you.

Dave Holland [00:05:04]:
So I think that's just the baseline, wouldn't you agree? I mean that, that's just the start the conversation.

Robert Fillyaw [00:05:11]:
Absolutely. I mean this is, guys, this is, this is a profession where you make, I mean, hell, some people make more than professional athletes.

Dave Holland [00:05:18]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:05:19]:
More than doctors, more than lawyers. The opportunity is massive. And then I see people, you know, trying to phone it in, trying to part time it, trying to half asset. That's never going to get you to the top. It's not going to work. So I think that's a great baseline communication. I would add to that.

Dave Holland [00:05:36]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:05:36]:
Answer your phone, respond to emails. Like when things get tough, a lot of loan officers tend to shrink away from communication because it's difficult to have those conversations and it's uncomfortable. And that's just the opposite of what you should do if you really want to attract and build that relationship. When things start going maybe a little sideways or a little tough, that's when you should over communicate. That's when you should be more in the trenches and setting the expectations and talking to people about what's going on. I used to call agents right when something was just starting to go a little sideways. And I called it Murphy's Rule of Lending.

Dave Holland [00:06:15]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:06:16]:
Actually I called it Murphy's Law of Lending. So it had.

Dave Holland [00:06:19]:
I haven't heard this.

Robert Fillyaw [00:06:20]:
You haven't heard Murphy's Law of Lending. Here's how Murphy's Law of Lending.

Dave Holland [00:06:24]:
I get that. I'm getting.

Robert Fillyaw [00:06:25]:
Yeah, here's how Murphy's Law of lending works. Hey, Mr. Or Ms. Agent. I'm calling you about something on this file we have working together. I don't think it's going to be an issue. Here's what the deal is, here's what we're doing to work around it. And I think, you know, I'm 90% sure we're going to be fine.

Robert Fillyaw [00:06:40]:
Murphy's Law of Lending, however, says that if I don't call you about it, it's going to explode into this Massive ordeal and potentially hurt our transaction. If I do call you about it, we're going to have it worked out probably before the end of the day and it's going to be a non, non issue. So that's Murphy's Law of Lending. It's an easy way to broach a subject and it puts it out there, it makes everyone aware, you know, part of the other communication. If you're doing that, have some level of solution before you give them a problem. One last tidbit I'll give you on this is anytime you're given any kind of news, call your agent first.

Dave Holland [00:07:14]:
Right?

Robert Fillyaw [00:07:15]:
Because if you call your client first, they're immediately going to hang up and then call the agent. And if the agent doesn't know, you look like an ass. So always call your agent first. So that's Murphy's, Murphy's Law of Lending.

Dave Holland [00:07:27]:
I always say it's not the COVID it's not the crime, it's the COVID up.

Robert Fillyaw [00:07:32]:
I've heard you say that a thousand times and it's true.

Dave Holland [00:07:34]:
And you know, I see loan officers bearing their heads in the sands and like. Did you call your realtor partner? No. Why not? I'm afraid I'm going to get yelled at. Well, I mean sometimes it's our fault. Like we make a mistake. We're all human, right? We're not perfect. Sometimes it's just situational, it's the appraisal, tighter work, things that are out of our control. Borrower buys a car.

Dave Holland [00:07:57]:
There's a million examples. So I always want to get front and center of it. I read this somewhere, like cows run away from a storm, buffalo run towards a storm because they get through it quicker. I know that's a little cheesy, but I kind of like it. I'd rather take my medicine this morning than worry about it. We're recording on a Friday. I'd rather take my medicine this morning and get it out of the way than think about it all weekend and have it ruin my weekend. I mean I don't get as stressed on files as I once did because I usually have a solution or I know sometimes time cure these items but you know, if you really did mess up, own it right away and then have a solution.

Dave Holland [00:08:39]:
If you don't have a solution, say we're working on a solution, have the solutions. Ideal.

Robert Fillyaw [00:08:45]:
Yeah, I think, I think that's a great point, Dave. You know, one thing I've always said is eat the frog, right? Whatever. The most difficult thing you have to do that day. Most people Tend to put it off and kind of dread it. And you. You spend in this, like, perpetual fear for the rest of the day. Get it over with, man. Pick up the damn phone, make the call, get the hard part out of the way, and then you can go about the rest of your day.

Dave Holland [00:09:06]:
So rest of your day just kind of flows from there then?

Robert Fillyaw [00:09:10]:
Yeah, it just goes from there.

Dave Holland [00:09:11]:
Right?

Robert Fillyaw [00:09:11]:
It's like, think about it. It's why a lot of people work out in the morning, right? Go to the gym, get the hard part out, and then you just kind of roll with it.

Dave Holland [00:09:18]:
Right?

Robert Fillyaw [00:09:19]:
Agree. You know, one thing about all of this is we're talking about it. And bringing value versus writing a check or paying is, you know, one. One thing that I see, the biggest value that we can bring is making sure that that deal closes every time on time. And really, to do that, you gotta know your stuff, man. You have to know your guidelines. You have to be a master of this craft. And so many times I see loan officers that, frankly, just aren't right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:09:48]:
Like, it sounds dorky. I get it, but I literally used to read the guideline manuals. I forget what they were called, but they were the books that were printed, and I would take them home and read them and study them. And you know what? It set me apart. It set me apart from every other lo. And I became, and to this day became the place that if a deal died somewhere else, it wasn't dead until I looked at it and said it was dead. And when you save a deal, you want to talk about building a relationship and attracting versus chasing. Go save a.

Robert Fillyaw [00:10:24]:
Go save a payday for a Realtor. Get that deal. That was a denial somewhere else, and turn it into an approval and a close Realtor relationship for life right there.

Dave Holland [00:10:34]:
Absolutely, Absolutely. Well, you know, let's talk about what some of our listeners probably jumped on to listen to. You know, what should you do? And I have my answer. If someone hits you up for a large Zillow spend, I do think there is a time and place for that.

Dave Holland [00:10:50]:
Right.

Dave Holland [00:10:50]:
But it's not on every ask. It's not on every transaction. We all have a trail of tears signing up for Zillow, realtor.com, some sort of financial relationship. What are your thoughts on that? I have some strong thoughts.

Robert Fillyaw [00:11:08]:
Yeah. I think we're probably gonna align here. Right? First of all, I think as a lender, you have to know your value. You have to know what you bring to the table, and that we're not just a commodity. Like, we bring a Lot of value to the transaction. So if you have that mindset, it puts you in a different position to kind of have this conversation. I look at the Zillow spend, the buy and lead spend, I look at that more as a thank you, then, hey, let's start a relationship together. Because when you start a relationship that way, you've just commoditized yourself even more.

Robert Fillyaw [00:11:46]:
So the way I've always used it is agents that I've worked with that we have a strong relationship with that I already know, like and trust and enjoy working with. They work well with my team. They're not a pain in the ass. I've used it to increase our business or take it to the next level, not to start the relationship. And I feel really strongly about that. Anytime that I would have an agent come and solicit me to start a relationship that way, my standard answer was, yeah, that that's possible down the road. But what I'd really like is for us to work three or four deals together and make sure we work well together before either one of us make that commitment.

Dave Holland [00:12:26]:
A hundred percent. I mean it, like many things in life, if someone comes for the money, they'll leave for the money a hundred percent. So it's not a great way to start a relationship. It's a way to accentuate the relationship. And I do have a couple of Zillow relationships, but they're with my top agents who I've worked with for years. They're good at capturing the realtor.com and the Zillow leads aren't easy nut to crack. I mean, it's not as if I'm going to get like 100 Zillow leads and close 50 of them. The only way I'm closing those transactions is if the Realtor does a good job.

Dave Holland [00:13:03]:
Because as they, as, as a mortgage person, I'm just secondary. I'm just white noise to the potential customer. Yeah. So there is a time and place for it. But I mean, I've had many realtors come at me and say, will you spend 1, 2, $3,000 a month on Zillow spend? You know, realtors, I don't know. And the answer is generally no, because when you break it down, I just, I had an ass that was right around $3,000. The best guy I was going to do was break even. I mean, that was the best I could hope for.

Dave Holland [00:13:36]:
That was the best outcome. And that is not a good outcome. I'm not in business, obviously, to break even. You're doing all the work and Then you're breaking and we're losing money. It just doesn't make sense.

Robert Fillyaw [00:13:47]:
Well, and a lot of people don't realize though that that online lead, you know, the conversion rate on those, if you're doing it well, is somewhere around 2%. Like it's, it's a lot of work for not a lot of yield.

Dave Holland [00:13:59]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:14:00]:
It's kind of like trying to get full. Eating sunflower seeds. It's. You may get there, but it's going to take a long time.

Dave Holland [00:14:06]:
Right?

Dave Holland [00:14:06]:
Take a while.

Robert Fillyaw [00:14:07]:
Take a while, yeah. You know, one of the things that I think we talk about bringing value. What does that look like? Everyone says it, but like what is it? What, what are actual activities or things that you do or that you think can be done that you've seen work really well to bring value and help build and establish that relationship.

Dave Holland [00:14:34]:
You know, besides the obvious that we talked about closing on time every, you know, every time, you know, doing a good job again, that's a given. Being available to our realtor partners seven days a week. You know, I'll do little things. I'll always offer to call the listing agent to help present my side of the, the mortgage side of the offer. It's, it's not about, it's not about giving away personal information. It's about, you know, I'm working with Robert Philia, who's my customer, working with Beth Thomas realtor. Here's what we did to pre approve the person, you know, basically giving the listing agent peace of mind. We've reviewed W2s, pay stubs, bank statements, driver's license, pulled credit.

Dave Holland [00:15:16]:
We've done a deep dive. And if we have pre underwritten the file, mention that as well too. If I'm local in the marketplace, I mentioned that I'm local. What my appraisal situation looks like. Just going into a lot of details to say we're not XYZ Big Box bank, we're not Consumer Direct Internet driven lead company. And that does. It's not always going to help win the transaction. Right.

Dave Holland [00:15:41]:
But it never hurts making that call of introduction, making the listing agent and then, you know, making the seller as a result of it feel comfortable. So those are little things. Updating them on a regular basis, you know, with phone calls or text and our CRM, making sure everyone knows what's going on in the transaction on at all times, both the buy agent in the listing agent and making sure everyone's happy. I mean those are little things. I think those are almost a given.

Robert Fillyaw [00:16:14]:
Yeah, well, we think that but then it doesn't happen.

Dave Holland [00:16:17]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:16:17]:
We've all heard the stories where it doesn't happen. I agree with all of those. You know, some of the things that we used to also do in addition is again, I think little things, but, you know, open house support. And I'm not talking about, you know, dropping 500 on food. I'm talking about maybe going and just hanging and helping work the crowd and being engaging.

Dave Holland [00:16:37]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:16:39]:
Social media engagement. If you see that agent has, you know, posted a listing, we would reshare it and we would even put in there, hey, call me today to get pre qualified for this listing and then I can get you with the agent engagement on their social media stuff. One of the things that helped us massively in my market, we're a survey state.

Dave Holland [00:17:00]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:17:00]:
We have to have a survey pretty much on every purchase transaction. And the real estate agent is typically the one ordering that. And it would fall by the wayside. It would get, you know, be a hassle, whatever. We took that off the plate of our agents. We, we came in and said, hey, what's something that you do in your transaction as that's on your side of the house as a process that we can take from you. And ordering the survey was one of them that we did. And agents absolutely loved it because it's one less thing that they have to do.

Robert Fillyaw [00:17:33]:
It's literally a make or break on the deal. If you don't get it, you're delayed. And we had a great survey relationship that we could get it done typically more efficiently and less expensive. So think about those kinds of things. What can you take off the Realtor's plate? What can you do to help get the deal to the finish line faster? What can you do to bring value? Education and training is a huge value add for these agents. I used to do two classes a year. One was a business planning class because almost none of the agents business plan and it's massively important. And the other was a dispelling VA myth class.

Dave Holland [00:18:13]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:18:14]:
So that adds value and it helps them close more transactions. Cost me nothing. But it goes back to one of the points we made earlier. You have to know your stuff. You have to be a master of your craft. So I think all of those are great and definitely add value.

Dave Holland [00:18:29]:
Yeah, I mean locally in my marketplace, we do a couple value adds to, I mean a happy hour that may seem like it's a, you know, happy hour, not a big deal. However, it allows the realtors to network with, with each other. We all know once you meet Someone in person. It's kind of hard to be nasty to you. Develop a lot of relationship. We do lunch and learns where we have, you know, speakers that engage and bring thoughtful information. Those are just too little. They're not little.

Dave Holland [00:18:59]:
They're actually big things. But that helps drive realtor loyalty and actually does. I genuinely objectively think that is a value add to our realtor partners.

Robert Fillyaw [00:19:09]:
Well, I know you're right. We're talking about attract first, Chase. I know your happy hours live in that mindset because I've been at one where an agent or you told me a story where an agent asked you, hey, how. How come I don't ever get invited to your happy hours? How. How come, you know, I'm not included? They want to. They want to be included. And you said, well, we don't do business together. Let's start working together.

Robert Fillyaw [00:19:32]:
And it kind of went from there. And I think a couple deals came in.

Dave Holland [00:19:35]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:19:36]:
So, like, that's a great example of a track first, Chase.

Dave Holland [00:19:39]:
I mean, I. I'm not counting on that. Right. They were on my list because I don't know who they were. And, you know, we had no relationship. I just can't invite you. I can't invite 8,000 agents in the Pittsburgh Marketplace if we don't have relationship. That's not the expectation, but.

Robert Fillyaw [00:19:54]:
No, but it's a good example of some of the outcome that can happen.

Dave Holland [00:19:58]:
Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I'll do webinars on some of our specialty products. Renovation on deck. We'll talk about appraisals, little things like that. Like, I generally want to educate my agents. I want to bring value. I love the idea of a business planning session because, you know, even our loan officers don't do great business planning. So.

Dave Holland [00:20:20]:
Yeah, and listen, you can get on chat GPT, you can Google it. A lot of coaching programs offer stuff like that, but you have to do more than the average loan officer. You have to put in an extra effort. Unfortunately, sometimes closing deals on time, smoothly, giving great service isn't enough. As in, yeah, yeah, what else we got?

Robert Fillyaw [00:20:44]:
I really think it's all about the mindset of becoming their business partner. And, you know, one of the conversation pieces I always had with agents is my job is to help you close more transactions. And that's when I really add value to you. I want to be your partner in closing more transactions. And when we find ways to do that, it works really well. You know, one thing of all of this, guys, as we talked about, it's a little counterintuitive because we're talking about attract first chase. But I think part of the attraction piece is you have to make your intentions known. You have to ask for the business.

Robert Fillyaw [00:21:20]:
And so many people miss this, I think, and just assume that they know that we want the business. Everyone has some level of anxiety, you know, discomfort, little man on their shoulder saying you're not good enough, whatever. Everyone has some level of that. So what I found is the agents may think you're too busy, they don't do the business that you want to do. They're not doing enough business for you. Pick something right and this gets in their mind. And when you ask for the business, when you say, hey, I'd really like to work with you and establish a relationship, I would love to help your next buyer. When you do that, it drops all of those barriers, all of those walls and now they know it's okay to send me business.

Robert Fillyaw [00:22:07]:
That's, that's a massive thing. I've, I've literally seen loan officers double their business just with that one change because they were doing all the other things and they, that wall didn't come down. So I think that's a big piece of it that I wanted to make sure we talked about.

Dave Holland [00:22:22]:
You'll get some no's, but you'll certainly get a number of yeses. You just have to make more offers. You have to ask if you're not going to ask an agent and then you don't get any business. It's 100% your fault.

Dave Holland [00:22:37]:
Agreed.

Robert Fillyaw [00:22:38]:
100%. So we're talking about all this. Dave, last question as we look to wrap this up. How do you stay top of mind without becoming annoying?

Dave Holland [00:22:48]:
I mean an easy way to do to social media, I mean that, that's, that's obviously easy to do. Posting value on social media. I mean I post pictures of my family and stuff like that. That's normal and expected but. And then also we do have a newsletter that goes out to our agents every Friday. I'm sure a ton unsubscribed, but a lot of people genuinely like the newsletter and it has valuable information in there. It comes from our CRM. I've got a lot of compliments on it, little things like that and just reaching out to your agents and see what they need help with.

Dave Holland [00:23:25]:
Talking about our top line products that are a little out of the norm. Just the basic blocking and tackling day in and day out.

Robert Fillyaw [00:23:34]:
I like all of that. You know, one thing I always worked really hard to do is to establish a relationship, a friendship, Type relationship with my agents where you get to know.

Dave Holland [00:23:45]:
Right.

Robert Fillyaw [00:23:46]:
We use the analogy frog a lot of times to get to know them personally. It's not just all about business. And they get to know me and they see my family. You mentioned your beautiful family that you post and then you have a deeper connection. So when you're calling, it's not just, oh, here's Robert calling me to ask about business. Hell, I might not even be calling about business. I may have seen that you're on the boat over the weekend or maybe calling you to talk about Florida's awful season that's going on or something along those lines because we have that in common. And I know.

Robert Fillyaw [00:24:13]:
And then it's kind of a next level. And that just deepens the attraction versus chase element of this. So, guys, if you're out there and you're listening, if you can get on that level with your agents, game over. No. No one will be able to take them from you. And it's not now. It's not who's paying, like, who's the next top dollar. You're not commoditizing yourself.

Robert Fillyaw [00:24:36]:
It's a true relationship. That's with a foundation of business. That's where the magic happens.

Dave Holland [00:24:44]:
Absolutely.

Robert Fillyaw [00:24:45]:
As we close out, guys, here's some call to actions that we're going to put out there and challenge you with. Make a list of the five agents you admire and think about what's one way that you could show up for them this week. To add value doesn't necessarily have to cost you anything. What can you do to deepen and strengthen that relationship? Take 30 or 45 minutes and audit your social media. Are you visible enough to attract the people that you want to work with? Are you connected to them? Are you engaging with them? And then lastly, ask yourself, if you were a real estate agent, would you want to work with you? Why or why not? And what can you do to change that? Improve that. Some great takeaways. If you do that homework, I think it'll add some value to you and help you deepen, deepen and strengthen your relationship.

Dave Holland [00:25:32]:
Yeah, I think those are great. And if you're going to have someone, if you're going to audit your social media, do it yourself. But have two other people do it right. Because you can't be objective enough with your own social media. Have someone else take a look at it.

Robert Fillyaw [00:25:47]:
Great point. Great point. All right, everyone, thanks again so much for joining us on this episode of Lending Leadership with the Mortgage Pros. Can't wait to see you on the next one for Dave Holland. I'm Robert Fillyaw. Don't forget to subscribe and smash that like button. Thanks so much.

Dave Holland [00:26:03]:
Thanks everyone.