Mortgage Leadership Q&A: Tackling Tough Industry Questions from Our Listeners

Tom Mills [00:00:16]:
Welcome everybody to another episode of Lending Leadership, the mortgage pros. I'm Tom Mills. I'm here with my cohost, Robert Fillyaw, Dave Holland. How are we doing today, fellas?

Dave Holland [00:00:27]:
Good. How are you doing?

Tom Mills [00:00:28]:
Good, boss. Awesome. That was a little better. We we're gonna switch it up a little bit. I know we we come in. We talk like our topic, like, a couple minutes before. So today, you know, we've been growing. Thank you to our loyal listeners, and, we love the engagement.

Tom Mills [00:00:44]:
We've actually had some questions come our way, through our site, and, we thought we didn't even realize they were there until, this week, and we thought, wow. We should start to take these questions on and knock them out. So I've read through a couple of them. I don't even know what's coming our way here. I know they were gonna throw them at us randomly. So let's have a little fun, knock some questions down, and, hopefully, you, listeners out there that ask the questions are are are here to get your answers.

Robert Fillyaw [00:01:12]:
And, as we progress, we love these questions, guys. So keep them coming. If if you're out there listening and you're running into things and wanna know what the mortgage pros, how how we would tackle it, get those questions in, and we'll get them answered.

Tom Mills [00:01:23]:
So Yeah. So I just see we got hit with the first one. I'll I'll read it. John asked, I feel like my manager's cherry picking and choosing the good leads for themselves passing leftovers to me. How do I handle this without causing issues, drama?

Dave Holland [00:01:44]:
Go get your own leads. Take the leftover and then leave.

Robert Fillyaw [00:01:49]:
Did did you just raise your hand?

Dave Holland [00:01:50]:
I just raised my hand. Yes. Okay. It's like a it's like a team's meeting. Yeah. I mean, certainly address it head on if you think that's happening. Your manager shouldn't be cherry picking the best leads, but, you know, go get your own leads. Get your own referral sources.

Dave Holland [00:02:06]:
Don't, don't depend on your manager for the leads. That's my 2¢. And then leave. Develop your own business.

Robert Fillyaw [00:02:12]:
I agree. I agree completely. You give a man a fish, he eats for a day. You teach a man to fish, he eats for life. Right? And this is kinda similar. Go go get your own business, and don't be relying on any anyone else. If you're in a shop that is built to where your fed leads and you feel like you're just getting cherry picked, I think all three of us would agree from a leadership perspective. The only way to handle that is is direct.

Robert Fillyaw [00:02:35]:
Right? It doesn't you don't have to do it to where it creates drama, you know, professional direct conversation with the person to let them know how you feel and what you would like to see change and what that result would be. One on one is a great way to address anything. Where the drama comes in, I think, in a situation like this is if you let your frustrations boil over and then you become not the best employee you could be, or you have side conversations with other people in the office that detract from your manager and their potential leadership. That's really where the drama would come in as I see it.

Tom Mills [00:03:10]:
I also think, I mean, obviously, we run a different model. So, of course, Dave, your answer is, like, generate your own leads, and I get that. There's other models out there, and I've ran I've I've had success in in both ends and did a lead gen model before and had great success with it. I would hear that. You know? Whether it was me taking the leads or not or somebody else, somebody else got the good leads. You know? And, you know, the reality of it is is a lead is is a name, a valid name, and a valid phone number of someone who may be interested in buying, selling, or or refinancing a home. That is a lead, you know, and we're salespeople. So I've always found that that statement to be funny anyway.

Tom Mills [00:03:48]:
In most cases, you know, they they think that because that that other person just is working leads three times or four times as hard, and it looks like they got the good leads. They got the same name, phone numbers, and, you know, valid, contact information of somebody that may be interested in doing a transaction that that the next person got. So in that in that sense, you know, I think you've you've gotta look at, you know, what I don't know how you define what a good lead is, what a bad lead is, but I I define it more more simple than that.

Dave Holland [00:04:21]:
I think we all know what the good leads are. They're the Glengarry leads.

Robert Fillyaw [00:04:24]:
I was I was just gonna reference Glengarry. Dang it. Call me

Dave Holland [00:04:28]:
some close Gary deal.

Robert Fillyaw [00:04:30]:
Go in there. Dang it. Jumped in

Tom Mills [00:04:33]:
front of me.

Robert Fillyaw [00:04:35]:
Yeah. I I think that's all well said. Next question that just came in. I'm trying to win deals, but my manager won't approve pricing exceptions, and I'm losing clients to competitors. What do I do?

Dave Holland [00:04:49]:
I mean, this is a tough one, because there's a lot of variance now in the rates. Like, you know, we have some portfolio products, but generally, we're an agency shop. So Fannie, Freddie, VA, FHA, USDA. So sometimes you get these credit unions, in these small, you know, small banks or SNLs or mutual companies that they just wanna fill up their their pipeline of loans. They have some money to lend, and then they disappear. They're they're, you know, they're in for a quarter for six months, and they're out for two years. I mean, we we've seen guys what rates that are, a full percent lower than ours. I mean, it doesn't happen often, but it happens from time to time.

Dave Holland [00:05:32]:
You know? If it's close, yeah. I mean, your manager should approve those exceptions. But if it's if it's a massive difference, you know, you can end up losing money on those. Right? And if you're constantly coming in the well, you know, you you gotta look at where your referral sources are and your customers are. If every single transaction needs a price exception, that that's an issue. That's an issue. And, Robert, I know you're gonna say it. I mean, you know, how do some of these credit union and bank people get paid? It's a lot different from A lot different.

Dave Holland [00:06:03]:
A shop like ours.

Robert Fillyaw [00:06:05]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I I think that's a a really good place to start. Right? Comparison's the thief of all joy. But when you're looking at pricing, you really have to look at who am I up against, and is it an apples to apples comparison? And, you know, it's it's it's easy to forget this in the moment when you're just trying to win a deal, and we want every deal that we can get, but not all models are built equal. And that guy, that credit union that has walk in foot traffic that's making a $40,000 a year salary and 10 basis points doesn't have the ability to make the same kind of money that you have to make. But that ability to make that money is because of where your pricing is, and that's what pays for that. And it pays for the support that you get so you don't have to be in your files and the marketing that you get to grow your business and what other other aspects of it are.

Robert Fillyaw [00:06:51]:
Right? So I think I think, Dave, your point's extremely valid, especially when we see volatile markets and when we see people, you know, starving, right, for for volume. They'll undercut. It's it's been a knife the last two years, guys, has been a knife fight to the bottom. Like, just just who can get to the bottom quickest, and Yeah. We've really cannibalized and commoditized ourself, which is sad. But you do have to take apples to apples and make sure that you're comparing that deal you're up against and the model that it is and how it is into the conversation and have some self reflection there. And before you guys come to tar and feather me, I know that that's difficult when you're just trying to win deals, but that's really the foundation of it.

Tom Mills [00:07:33]:
Yeah. You know, we've we've been in an environment where I think rates mattered more in the last two years and probably the rest of my my career combined. You know? So, I think all everybody's a little sensitive to it. His business got more scarce. You know? Everybody took on a a different strategy. And, you know, I think when you you say comparison, I mean, when you compare you know, when you say my competition, that that's also changed. You know? Our our competition is sometimes a local bank, the credit union today. So, you know, we should we should really understand your competition and really understand, you know you know, the differences because it's not just the compensation.

Tom Mills [00:08:09]:
It's not it's not just the rate. It's the compensation, the structure, the support, the marketing dollars, the you know, what do you get to focus on, all that kind of stuff. And all that really, really matters, I think. I also think you're gonna lose some loans to rate. And if you don't lose some loans, you're you're probably priced too well, and you'll probably feel some effects of of that, you know, the the negative effects of having too strong of price. So if you really look at who your true competition is and you feel like you're losing out to who you should define as your true competition, which is somebody a company that offers similar type of compensation structure, support structure, marketing opportunities and tools and things like that, and you feel like you're losing to that competition, you you know, you might wanna start to explore, you know, quite honestly. And I'm not always saying that the answer is to leave. But, you know, if you don't feel like you've got a supportive manager and you gotta like companies out there that are that are beating you, you you know, rate is important today.

Tom Mills [00:09:06]:
I'll say that. Yeah.

Robert Fillyaw [00:09:08]:
I I agree. I think anyone that says rate's not important is lost in the sauce. It's not the it's not the only important thing, and it may not even be the most important thing, but it's certainly a factor and isn't a is isn't It

Tom Mills [00:09:20]:
is the two or three out of 10 of every customers you're gonna come across. That's what I'll tell you. That's why it's important. Because for two or three out of 10, that's about the number. Right? Yep. It's everything to them.

Robert Fillyaw [00:09:29]:
It's everything. It's everything. Dave, you get to read this next question.

Dave Holland [00:09:34]:
Oh, boy. This actually

Robert Fillyaw [00:09:37]:
this We we have some we have some experience with this.

Dave Holland [00:09:40]:
We have some recent experience in 02/2025. My borrower says they make a living from OnlyFans.com. I don't even know what that is or how to document it. What do I do? Well, send it over send it over this way because we we've done, two, the past three months. Mhmm. So only only fans is it's it's not all pornography. Right?

Robert Fillyaw [00:10:07]:
I was just gonna say it's a content creation site and just leave it there.

Dave Holland [00:10:10]:
Content creation. Okay. Perfect. Content creation site.

Robert Fillyaw [00:10:13]:
Ten ten ninety nine content creators. Yeah. So they're self employed.

Dave Holland [00:10:18]:
They're self employed. So, you know, we gotta look at it to your history. I think our specific situation was there was a massive spike in the income.

Robert Fillyaw [00:10:27]:
Massive spike. Like, from from a hundred grand 1 year to 1,200,000.0 the next year.

Dave Holland [00:10:33]:
Yeah. We got it done. We got them in

Tom Mills [00:10:34]:
the home. Document do we document the number of viewers that increase from from year to year?

Robert Fillyaw [00:10:39]:
I'm I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give the recipe up, Tom, but we

Dave Holland [00:10:43]:
don't all the details. We don't know what city it was in. It was somewhere in the central or eastern time zone. Alright. So, yeah, let's let's move off this one. What what what do we have next?

Tom Mills [00:10:55]:
But the so

Robert Fillyaw [00:10:55]:
the long the the the short answer is self employed income. Just document it like you would self employed income. I

Dave Holland [00:11:00]:
think our situation was a little more complicated that we we don't wanna dive too deep into.

Robert Fillyaw [00:11:05]:
It was. There were some taxes. Her accountant messed some stuff up. Accountant, can we stop for a a second and talk about the number of incorrect tax returns we see in the crazy stuff that accountants do? I guess maybe they have a reason on their side of the world, but on the mortgage side, it's like I just scratch my head.

Tom Mills [00:11:21]:
I'm like, what what are we doing here?

Robert Fillyaw [00:11:22]:
Why do we do this?

Tom Mills [00:11:24]:
That's that accountant that can get you more money back than anybody else. Yeah.

Dave Holland [00:11:29]:
Yeah. Right? It'll be a problem. They make us the bad guy. Your mortgage company doesn't know, what you're talking about. I mean, I don't know. I I run these these items by my accountant often, and he just scratches his head.

Tom Mills [00:11:43]:
Alright. We got another question?

Robert Fillyaw [00:11:44]:
Alright. Yeah. Here we go. I got one of them. You got it, Milzer?

Tom Mills [00:11:48]:
Yeah. I'll read it. I signed a contract with a new mortgage company, and now I'm realizing there's a really strict non noncompete. Am I stuck?

Dave Holland [00:11:59]:
That's a great

Robert Fillyaw [00:12:00]:
question. So first off, you should always read your contract before you sign it and never ever never ever never ever ever never sign the contract with a noncompete. Yes.

Tom Mills [00:12:11]:
I'll just Yeah. So, you know, first off, I wanna answer that for, Chris. So, Chris, noncompete, nonsolicit, two completely different things. You know? Nonsolicit means, you know, you can't go to that company and solicit their employees or their customers or potentially even the customers that you originated during that time depending on how that agreement's written. That a noncompete generally means if you leave that organization, usually some mile radius, you can't compete and and actively originate loans within a mile a certain mile radius of where they may do business. That is something you shouldn't sign. There's definitely a few companies out there that have it, and I've definitely answered that question many of times. And those those companies are usually pretty litigious as well, so, good luck with that.

Tom Mills [00:13:00]:
The the quick answers and not sign the agreement, but noncompete. You know? Understand it. I think any any originator should always understand their agreement. If they're ever thinking about leaving, you should understand what that everything about that agreement, what leaving looks like, you know, and and weigh your decision there. You you may have a time period there, you know, that you you know, you're past that period, and and and it may be worth waiting for that depending on how how that's written. I've seen some strict ones and and seen some people have some real a real hard time moving on.

Robert Fillyaw [00:13:34]:
Lot of lawsuits over it too. Lot of dollars, time, energy, anguish.

Tom Mills [00:13:38]:
It's the only it's part of the business.

Robert Fillyaw [00:13:40]:
I I

Tom Mills [00:13:41]:
hate it. It became that.

Robert Fillyaw [00:13:44]:
Well, it it really comes off subject a little bit of a tangent, but it really comes down to companies just being insecure in the value that they provide and their ability to retain their their producers. So they they try to put these handcuffs on them. Right? Like, there there are some instances if you're paying big money upfront where you maybe have a clawback on it or, you know, maybe some nonsolicited. You're providing some leads and that kind of stuff. But Brought

Tom Mills [00:14:09]:
you out of college, taught you the you know, I can see certain senses Yeah. In my industry and others where it makes sense. But, you know, a noncompete, especially for somebody that has an existing book of business to go to a company that they now have a noncompete if they were gonna wanna leave that company. Like, that's craziness to me. You know? If that company helped you establish that book of business, you know, that's a little different.

Robert Fillyaw [00:14:32]:
Chris, if you did sign it, and you're realizing it, the first question I would have is have you fully onboarded? If you have not onboarded, I would walk it back and and not move your NMLS and not start. Alright? If you have fully onboarded and you signed it, now you're realizing it, I mean, as much as I hate to say this phrase, you you need to consult an employment attorney in your state. Laws vary state to state. There's some places where it may not even be enforceable. Right? So if you're in that situation, are you stuck? I don't know. I'm not an employment attorney. I don't know what state you're in. You need to consult an employment attorney in your state.

Tom Mills [00:15:09]:
Robbie, you wanna grab the next one?

Robert Fillyaw [00:15:11]:
Yeah. My my my borrowers basically admitted to fraud, but I really need the commission.

Dave Holland [00:15:22]:
What what type of fraud was it, Robert? Was it soft fraud or hard fraud?

Robert Fillyaw [00:15:27]:
Does it matter, Dave? And what do you mean by soft fraud or hard fraud? Like

Tom Mills [00:15:32]:
Fraud is fraud.

Robert Fillyaw [00:15:33]:
Fraud is fraud.

Tom Mills [00:15:34]:
And and by the way, you'd be And can You'd be committing it as well.

Robert Fillyaw [00:15:39]:
I know you're joking, but let's clarify for everyone out there that you're joking.

Dave Holland [00:15:43]:
I am joking for it.

Robert Fillyaw [00:15:45]:
Well, you don't think our our date

Tom Mills [00:15:47]:
ask her was was clearly joking with that.

Dave Holland [00:15:50]:
Maybe not. I mean, fraud is fraud. You can you can lose your license, obviously. Your company could self report you. The borrower could get in trouble depending on what happened. The realtor could get in trouble. Just it's a slippery slope. You know? Once you step over that line, you'll step over the line again.

Robert Fillyaw [00:16:08]:
Yeah. And, you know, the question that you've always gotta ask yourself, you may need that commission, but is that commission worth your entire livelihood? Because you you could end up in prison. You could end up out of this business. It's not worth it.

Dave Holland [00:16:22]:
You know, or at the very least, your license could could be suspended for a period of time. And if you sit on this business for the sideline for a couple years and you get on, you know, Fannie, Freddie, FHA's list, you you're done.

Robert Fillyaw [00:16:34]:
You're done.

Tom Mills [00:16:34]:
I know a couple people that ruined their careers over some really

Dave Holland [00:16:37]:
Same here. Decisions.

Tom Mills [00:16:38]:
And, it's a beautiful business that we're in, a beautiful industry. We we can outearn most industries that have to go for twelve years of school to earn our money, and and, we can do it all the right way. And I encourage you to do that.

Robert Fillyaw [00:16:54]:
Oh, next question.

Tom Mills [00:16:58]:
Do

Robert Fillyaw [00:16:58]:
I really need to be on TikTok as a loan officer? It feels ridiculous. No.

Dave Holland [00:17:04]:
You don't need to be on any social media. I mean, I I think anyone with social media, you have to find what works for you and what your what your audience is. But, yeah, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, they're all very useful tools to increase your business, your exposure to referral partners, customers, but, no, you don't need to be on it.

Robert Fillyaw [00:17:26]:
Yeah. I would I would agree. I I mean, I I know some people that have, you know, have a have a large TikTok following and have had posts go viral and the, you know, the millions of views and got the hundreds of leads. And, you know, in in hindsight seeing what happened with them, I think the the instance that I know well, I think they closed two loans out of it. Right? The the amount of work and follow-up and, you know, everything that went with that that it took to close those two loans, I would rather just spent a few more weeks dialing for coffee appointments.

Tom Mills [00:18:01]:
I look at it a little different. I think that, you know, you've you've gotta it it depends on who your audience is. Meaning, who who is your client that you're that you're going after. And if that's where your client's spending time, then you're you're you're missing an opportunity to market to them in that time. You know? Like, kinda where, you know, our realtors aren't hanging out in the office anymore. They're they're hanging out on social media, whether it be TikTok or Facebook or Instagram or something. So people do business with people that they know, like, and trust. And, you know, if you can, you know, grow that network of people that know you, like you, and funnel them to trusting you, if that customer you wanna work with, that type of realtor you wanna work with, the type of customer demographic customer you wanna work with is their own TikTok, you know, you might wanna consider a strategy.

Tom Mills [00:18:46]:
I don't think you need to because that's a beautiful thing about this business. There's no one way to do this. You could I know people that write a hundred million that don't even have social media accounts, and I know people that spend their day on social media and don't write a goddamn loan a month. So, you know, you can be who you wanna be and go after, you know, where you wanna go after your business, but that's certainly a a way of marketing. And I think that's how, you know, mentioned, like, lead capturing on social media, and that's different than the ability to market, stay top of mind, show your subject matter expert on something, show you have value, share success stories. I I think there's a lot there.

Robert Fillyaw [00:19:25]:
I I agree that if you choose to do it, they can be, you know, a lot. I think we're all on the same thing that you don't have to do it or you don't need to do it. What I think we would also all agree, whatever you decide, and this is with any marketing that you're gonna do, whatever you're gonna do, it needs to be intentional. You need to have a plan, and you have to be consistent with it. If you're just getting on TikTok and, you know, happenstance here and there and you think you're gonna build a following and it's gonna change your business, you're a % wrong.

Tom Mills [00:19:53]:
And I think that's why it's being asked. You know? I think a lot of people are trying to find their way, and it's like, oh, you know, let me go on social media. And I I I'd tell you no doubt about it. I see more people sort of wasting their time on on social media than doing productive stuff. Mhmm. But

Robert Fillyaw [00:20:08]:
Guys, there's there's there's no magic button.

Tom Mills [00:20:11]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Holland [00:20:12]:
Well, there is a magic button. Wake up every day, grind hard, work twelve hours until you make it. It it's all the basic boring blocking and tackling stuff that that everyone's been taught. Yep. So that goes to the next question. This is from Judy. I feel like I'm doing everything right, but I'm still not closing enough. How do I know if it's just me or the market? I mean, the market's not great, but there's people absolutely killing it right now.

Robert Fillyaw [00:20:40]:
I would argue that, Dave. I would argue that the market's not great because if we look and I'm gonna mess these numbers up a little bit. But, it's either National Association of Realtors or the Mortgage Bankers Association. This is gonna be, like, their third or fourth best purchase year in the last twenty years in terms of projected volume. Yeah. So, like, we don't have the refis that's there, but it's still like, there's still a ton of business to be had out there.

Dave Holland [00:21:10]:
I think there's some markets that are stronger than others. I mean, you know, in all of our markets, we have some inventory problems. Like, here in Pittsburgh, we do. But other markets, I know it's, like, really bad. But in any market, there's someone who's absolutely killing it. There's brand new loan officers. You know, we have a we have a woman at our company, who had our leaderboard, and she's been in the retail mortgage space for, what, eight months. Yeah.

Dave Holland [00:21:38]:
So she's just out there doing all the right things day in and day out hustling. So, you know, you you gotta find a good mentor. You gotta find a good company, someone who can lead you, and tell you, you know, tell you what to do day in and day out, and then execute.

Tom Mills [00:21:53]:
Well, I think the you know, another question that is, like, you know, you feel you're doing everything right. Well, how long have you been doing everything right? Because there's no there's definitely no instant button to that. Right? So let's say you weren't doing everything right for the last six years of your career and you started ninety days ago doing everything right, I think you're just getting to a point where you might start to see things turn. Like, because that's ninety to a hundred and twenty day mark is usually it. You know? So what you should be focused on, proof for that is, are your you know, what is your credit pulls looking like? What is your new leads looking like? How many apps you're disclosing? Locking loans. You said your your fundings aren't enough. They they're gonna trail behind all of that. So, you know, really measure on the activity that that you're seeing from doing these right things.

Robert Fillyaw [00:22:38]:
If you're

Tom Mills [00:22:39]:
not seeing activity, might wanna start to ask yourself, like, whose definition of it do are you doing the right things by? You know? There there might be a different approach you wanna take because there is there is opportunity out there. We are not in a bad, not a horrible market by any means. And, usually, I think what I see most people that are truly doing the right things consistently right now are having are having a pretty good run.

Robert Fillyaw [00:23:02]:
Yeah. I love what you said there, Tom, and I I I agree. You gotta know your you gotta know your numbers. You got what what you don't measure, you can't improve. Right? So you gotta know your numbers and know that the fundings are gonna trail. You gotta know your metrics, and and it's so, you know, apropos what you say. It it is a ninety to a hundred and twenty day run rate. Right? So if you see there's one of two levers to push in this place.

Robert Fillyaw [00:23:28]:
Right? It's either, are you not getting the leads? And your numbers will tell you that. That's a different conversation. Or are you getting the leads and then you're not getting the conversion? Because that's that's a different thing to focus on. And if you know your numbers, you can dial it down to, do I not have the opportunities, or am I not converting the opportunities? And then adjust your sales from there. I gotta I I have a great one on this one. So do I.

Dave Holland [00:23:51]:
So I'm I'm gonna steal it from you. Go ahead.

Robert Fillyaw [00:23:54]:
I will I'm gonna just go right into it as I read the question. I'm not gonna give you the chance. So I absolutely hate cold calling. Are there any other ways to prospect that don't feel so cringey? Absolutely.

Dave Holland [00:24:04]:
That's a great that's a great question.

Robert Fillyaw [00:24:06]:
Open houses. Go visit open houses. Mhmm. They're happening all the time in most markets. It's a good opportunity. Most of the time, the agents kinda hanging out. They want some company. You get to meet other agents as they come through.

Robert Fillyaw [00:24:18]:
You get to potentially meet some clients. This will help you start to build a network. It's it's a warm introduction. Take that and pair it off into one on one coffees to get deeper, and you can make a lot of connections without having a cold call, and it works really well. There's a there's a lender friend of mine, who came into the business and literally he's a Scotsman's guide winner, built a branch, and literally when he came in, this is how he did it. All he did was hit open houses nonstop to build relationships and take it from there. Was that it, Dave? Did I steal it?

Dave Holland [00:24:53]:
You you you act you actually stole it. Yeah. So but when you do open houses because because I did them starting off on my career. Right? It warms you up. Right? Because you usually have a realtor who can be bored at the open house. You know, going with the plan. If they're talking to, you know, a potential home buyer or someone, like, just don't jump in and cut them off. Right? Like, do it naturally, have a plan, you know, have a conversation ready, and then I've seen loan officers bring, like, realtor open house survival kits.

Dave Holland [00:25:26]:
You know? It doesn't be something big like, you know, bottled water, you know, aspirin, you know, something like that, you know, and just hit as many open houses you can. In a lot of markets, there's twilight open houses during the week, and there's open houses on Saturday and Sunday. So you can cover a lot of ground. If if I was a realtor and I had a mortgage loan officer hustling on open houses, I'd be like, hey. This this person this person's a worker. They're they're a grinder. I want this person on my side. Certainly, wanna give them all my business out of the gate, but I I might throw them a bone.

Dave Holland [00:26:03]:
It's definitely I didn't make my career on that, but I certainly that helped. And I used back in the day, Robert, you might have done it, Tom, too, pass that rate sheets at realtor's office. I used to do that every Wednesday, every single Wednesday. Most of that stuff went right in the chat trash, I knew, but I did make some connections.

Tom Mills [00:26:22]:
Yeah. The only thing I'd add is, get used to calling. Nobody likes cold calling, and it's actually, you know, really low converting to be quite honestly. Like, straight cold calls are are low converting calls. So look for opportunities to warm those calls up, make connection prior, you know, leverage other people to, you know, to connections and name drop people. You know, find any way you can to, you know, get the target list you want and look to warm that list up if you're not comfortable with the with the just straight cold call approach.

Robert Fillyaw [00:26:54]:
I'm gonna add one more since Dave and I kinda overlapped, and I wanna give the people a a full, three pronged approach. Find a way to add value by becoming a subject matter expert on a niche product. Right? Whatever that may be in your market or your company. You know, we have awesome renovation department here. Like, it's it's going to open the door to where you're bringing value to the agent that you're calling on, to help them close business that maybe they didn't know that they could close or that they'd be able to close. And that's gonna get you connections. You're not cold calling at that point. You're calling to tell them about something that you're the subject matter matter expert in and and frankly probably don't have a lot of competition, and it's a great way to build relationships.

Tom Mills [00:27:40]:
Don't put them on a pedestal. You're the prize.

Robert Fillyaw [00:27:43]:
This next question's a good one for you, Dave, to read. How do I Last question, by the way. Sorry to cut you off. Last question.

Dave Holland [00:27:48]:
No. No. You're good. How do I politely ask a bar to stop texting me at 10PM on weekends? You can do a couple different things. Ask them. Just tell them you're you're you shut down at eight or nine. Put your phone on do not disturb. Don't reply or just go to sleep.

Dave Holland [00:28:04]:
I don't know. I mean, boundaries, we always say boundaries are sexy. I lost a realtor partner one time because she texted me at 11:15, eleven twenty on a Sunday night, and she said, how come you didn't pick up? And I said, I was sleepy. And she goes, well, I need my my lending partner until midnight most nights. I said, I'm not your guy then. And that might have been one of the last times I spoke with her. But, you know, I had someone text me at 11:30 on Sunday, and I just got back to him the next day. I mean, I got back to him at 05:15AM when I woke up immediately because I wanna respond to it.

Dave Holland [00:28:41]:
But, yeah, someone texted me that late at night. I as soon as I get up, first thing I do is I text them couple times, so they hit a couple buzzes. You know?

Robert Fillyaw [00:28:48]:
When the point in our life that we're at.

Dave Holland [00:28:50]:
Yeah. When it's after 11:00, like, come on. I mean, nothing's gonna nothing's gonna get solved that late at night. So I put my do not disturb, on most nights.

Robert Fillyaw [00:29:02]:
Listen. I love this question. If I don't I don't remember if we've done a segment on this yet or not. If not, we should. Boundaries are sexy, and it's up to you as the originator to set them. And what keeps people from setting them is a scarcity mentality, and you you gotta kick that to the curb and put your boundaries in place and and stick to them. Right? If not, people will take as much as you let them take. I'm a firm believer in that.

Robert Fillyaw [00:29:25]:
Set your boundaries. I would tell my clients upfront, these are our working hours. If you contact me within these hours, you will get a response back before the end of the day. If you don't, you know, if it's after these hours, you're gonna get a response the next day. Set the expectation upfront and then stick to it because the minute you deviate from it, you have now just rewarded their behavior and have shown that if they do that, you're gonna reply. Right? So you gotta set the boundaries. You gotta stick to it. And you gotta you gotta be okay with you know, you may lose a deal.

Robert Fillyaw [00:29:56]:
You may lose an agent partner. When Dave talked about the one he lost, when I started setting my team up and set the team phone and team email up, I had an agent say, I only if if I can't talk to you and only you all the time, I I'm not gonna send business anymore. I said, I'm sorry you feel that way. It sounds like we won't be working together anymore. Never sent me another deal. You know what? I think I added 27 agents that year that started sending us business. So it's okay.

Dave Holland [00:30:23]:
I like this format.

Tom Mills [00:30:24]:
A lot of questions in. It took a lot of quick we I still said there's so much more. We should probably do this again.

Robert Fillyaw [00:30:29]:
Yeah. This was great. I enjoyed it. Alright, guys. Good stuff. Hey. Thanks for tuning in, guys, to this, exciting episode of lending leadership with the mortgage pros. Don't forget to hit that like button.

Robert Fillyaw [00:30:41]:
Leave us that five star review. Tune in every week for us and, send your questions in. We wanna hear from you. We'd love to get some answers out to you. Let us know what, what you're up against and what we can we can solve for you. For Dave Holland and Tom Mills, I'm Robert Fillyaw. Y'all have a great day.