Old School to New School: The Biggest Changes in Mortgage Sales and Marketing

Ralph Watkins [00:00:00]:
The biggest evolution is going from old school marketing, which I always thought was just what you needed to do and had to do. Like my first job ever in my life. I was 12 years old. It was selling candy door to door.

Robert Filja [00:00:18]:
Cold calls, coffee dates, social media reels. And now AI the mortgage marketing game has changed. Today we're gonna be talking with industry coach and marketing expert Ralph Watkins about how to evolve without losing what works. We're going to unpack the daily success plan, the shift from chasing to attracting business, and how loan officers can connect with realtors in ways that feel authentic and not awkward. It's the next exciting episode of Lending Leadership with the mortgage pros. Welcome, guys. Dave Holland, Ralph Watkins. Thanks for jumping on today.

Robert Fillyaw [00:00:51]:
Hey, brother. That intro felt a little awkward, but we'll, we'll keep rolling.

Robert Filja [00:00:55]:
Listen, don't be great.

Ralph Watkins [00:00:56]:
Great to be here.

Robert Filja [00:00:57]:
I'm like, you're like, oh, Robert knows the intro. I can't do it. So next one you get to do. How about that there?

Robert Fillyaw [00:01:02]:
Yeah, Usually bring more energy.

Ralph Watkins [00:01:04]:
He's polished up today.

Robert Filja [00:01:06]:
Yeah.

Robert Fillyaw [00:01:07]:
You know, to, to our listeners, we have been traveling a lot. Robert just got back from a, from a work trip and we got back from a conference on Friday and Saturday. So we're, we're running that empty a little bit. Ralph, we're bear with here.

Ralph Watkins [00:01:21]:
Well, you know, we've been doing some of our own traveling, although it's been less about business. Well, you know, real estate and mortgage related business. You know, we've got a couple properties. Robert, you and I have spoken about that. And David, goodness, I'm not fit to dust the brush off your sandals when it comes to real estate, property ownership. But, but that's going well. And we run around and she always gets really, really high reviews because, you know, she's like manic about making sure that she would want to be able to stay in one of these places. And so that translates and takes a little bit of time.

Ralph Watkins [00:01:52]:
But anyway, that's another topic.

Robert Fillyaw [00:01:54]:
Yes.

Robert Filja [00:01:54]:
Yeah.

Robert Fillyaw [00:01:55]:
Something we should get into because real estate is a rich, a get rich slowly scam.

Robert Filja [00:02:03]:
Well, I wouldn't call it a scam. Just get rich slowly.

Ralph Watkins [00:02:06]:
Get rich slowly. You got that part?

Robert Filja [00:02:08]:
Practice, practice, practice.

Robert Fillyaw [00:02:11]:
Yeah, well, you know, we were talking about the show's notes before we got in. We're going to talk about how we met Ralph. So I'll go first. And you know, I have to say, meeting Ralph, you know, top five in my career, changed my career in my life. And that's legitimate. So I got an intake call with the Freedom Club Mortgage marketing animals. Ralph was their intake guy, I guess, upfront sales guy at the time. And he had a polished pitch.

Robert Fillyaw [00:02:45]:
And I was prepared to hate it, like, and not do it because I was already a 40 to $50 million guy. This is in 2018. But I hated my life. I was working 12 hours most days as a minimum, not going on vacation. I was like an alcoholic going in the closet to work and waking up early so my wife didn't see me. And it was a really good call. And towards the end, Ralph said something along the line that he's going to deny on this podcast. But basically, so, you know, it's cool.

Robert Fillyaw [00:03:23]:
Do you want to see your four kids? I just happen to have a fourth kid, like, two months before. Do you want to see your four kids grow up or you want your wife and the rest of your family to raise them? I was like, damn.

Robert Filja [00:03:34]:
He put the hook in closing with the hearts and my wife.

Robert Fillyaw [00:03:39]:
I came home that night, I'm like, I think I found my coaching group. I think I'm going to join it. And I said. She said, how much is it? And I told her. And it wasn't a small sum of money, you know, it was like getting two Range Rovers, basically a month. At the time, she didn't even blink. She goes, yeah, you should definitely do that if they can promise on half of what they're going to deliver. So that's how I met Ralph.

Robert Filja [00:04:02]:
It's funny, my experience is eerily similar, right. I had tried to sign up for an event that they were doing and it was full, but I could get a free intake call. So Ralph calls me.

Ralph Watkins [00:04:15]:
Oh, free.

Robert Fillyaw [00:04:15]:
A free intake.

Ralph Watkins [00:04:17]:
Free intake didn't even charge him.

Robert Filja [00:04:18]:
No, it was. It was a free strategy session is what I was. A strategy.

Ralph Watkins [00:04:23]:
That's right.

Robert Filja [00:04:24]:
So, you know, he. He laid the whole future cast thing on me. And I was. I was in the same spot you were, Dave. I was, you know, working six days a week, 60, 70 hours a week. Missed the first five years of my kid's life. And I remember telling him, you know, I gotta. I gotta talk to my wife.

Robert Filja [00:04:41]:
And thinking that this is something I have to do, but I'm gonna get this big fight, this big pushback because of the cost again. And I literally was like, three minutes into telling her about it, and she goes, why are you asking me? Just do this. It sounds like it's something we absolutely need and never look back. So. Thank you, Ralph, for. For changing my life. For real?

Ralph Watkins [00:05:03]:
Yeah. You know, it's it hasn't been a one way street, guys. You know what, what you all have brought and seeing you implement the things that we talk about specifically and you know, really the, the truth of this is that I, yes, they came in through me, but then they had the, the great pleasure and privilege of actually coaching with, with my better 3/4 who I, I, every day I get up and go, like, this person who has helped so many people and coached them, she's like, she's my life and everyday coach, partner and companion. So how blessed am I for that? So it's. You know what this is, guy? It's a culmination. It's like a perfect storm of good things coalescing.

Robert Filja [00:05:52]:
Agreed.

Robert Fillyaw [00:05:53]:
Absolutely.

Ralph Watkins [00:05:54]:
There's that.

Robert Filja [00:05:55]:
It's got to be. Listen, it's got to be awesome being married to Kristen, but sometimes it's probably a little intimidating also, right? Cause she's gonna call you on your crap. If there's ever any crap.

Ralph Watkins [00:06:04]:
Nothing slides by. Like for her 40th birthday, it's like, okay, I'm gonna actually go. I must be crazy. But I'm gonna book a surprise party. I'm thinking I got a snowball's chance in hell of pulling this off without her finding out. Right. And miraculously I did. But as soon as it broke, I just collapsed on the floor and went, oh, my gosh.

Ralph Watkins [00:06:26]:
Thank you, Lord. That's over. I had like six people helping me with it and there's, you know. Yeah, it was.

Robert Fillyaw [00:06:32]:
That's stress.

Robert Filja [00:06:32]:
You don't need. Love it.

Ralph Watkins [00:06:33]:
She doesn't miss anything.

Robert Filja [00:06:35]:
Yeah.

Ralph Watkins [00:06:35]:
You don't pull anything over on her. So. All right.

Robert Filja [00:06:39]:
She's sharp. So listen, you, you've, you've are, you know, a master of this game. A student and a master. You've seen every version of mortgage marketing out there over the years. You, you've seen where it was, where it is now, where it's going. Like, what's the biggest evolution that you think you've seen and how does that play into, you know, kind of what, what is new and popping today?

Ralph Watkins [00:07:07]:
Well, without a doubt, I think the, the biggest evolution is going from old school marketing, which I always thought was just what you needed to do and had to do. Like my first job ever in my life, I was 12 years old. It was sell candy door to door knocking. It was actually a company that organized groups of boys, put us in, you know, little teams and we would just knock on doors and the manager would go around, make sure we had, you know, our boxes were full and stuff. Selling candy. Summer in 1973, I think I made 500 that summer. I thought I died and went to heaven.

Robert Filja [00:07:45]:
That's awesome.

Robert Fillyaw [00:07:46]:
Yeah, can't do that now. That would not be allowed now. Someone would be in prison for that.

Ralph Watkins [00:07:51]:
Somebody be in prison for a bunch of reasons. Yeah, that just, that's just. But anyway, it was like, so I've always just, boom, knocked on a door, knock, knock, knock. Or you know, later, it was like, oh, I can pick up the phone and do this and I don't have to go. Actually walk door to door. Think of how many more people you could speak to. But, but I mean, that was just, it was all simply outreach. It was a shotgun approach.

Ralph Watkins [00:08:15]:
It's like, if you just talk to enough people, you'll sell something. You're not selling, you're not talking to enough people.

Robert Fillyaw [00:08:23]:
If I could, my strategy when I was, I started in 2000 and I didn't know anything about mortgage marketing. All I knew was donuts. It wasn't even bagels at that point because bagels weren't a thing. I would get donuts and rate sheets and go to these offices every Tuesday and Thursday. In my area was the south hills of Pittsburgh. Right. Because we had territories. And I would go and I had, I looked like I was probably 14 years old, baby faced, ill sitting, ill fitting suits because I couldn't afford any.

Robert Fillyaw [00:08:57]:
And I would just go in week after week. And I wore these realtors down. And the one woman said, if we give you a deal, will you stop coming? And I said, yes, for. Until I get the next deal. And that's how I started. I mean, and that was a lot of rejection. And this is when you could still smoke in real estate offices. And I knew the rate seats would go right in the garbage can.

Robert Filja [00:09:18]:
Right, Dave, that, that's why Dave has an affinity for flyers to this day. Don't even get me started on flyers.

Ralph Watkins [00:09:26]:
Call them fire starter. Well, moving into any kind of professional role, it was like, oh, how can I leverage this, this door knocking, cold calling ability. So I moved into securities, got my securities license, went to work with a guy who had this grand plan we were with, you know, back then it was Smith Barney, right? They, yeah. And over the next several years, I made tens, if not hundreds of thousands of cold calls. I mean, cold call cowboy, right? The, the goal was 6, 500 dials a day. That. So I, I love it when I talk to people now. They go, I don't know if I could make, you know, if I could talk to 10 people, I'm like 10.

Robert Filja [00:10:17]:
Yeah, you want, you want me to call, you want me to call 40 realtors a week?

Ralph Watkins [00:10:22]:
What? Yeah, like my best day ever. Because we tracked our, our, our dials, our contacts and our leads. 629 dials.

Robert Filja [00:10:32]:
Wow.

Ralph Watkins [00:10:32]:
I spoke. Hello, who is this? I spoke to 248 people and added 42 people to my. I love this. To my muni bond buyers calling list. Had no idea that that was the absolute lowest commission paying thing I could possibly be talking to anyone.

Robert Fillyaw [00:10:51]:
You should have been calling. What, off market or off the shelf?

Robert Filja [00:10:55]:
Yeah, the pink sheets. Wolf of Wall street up in here.

Ralph Watkins [00:11:02]:
Yeah, exactly. So that, that's, you know, coming from that background, it's just like more, more talk to more and you'll eventually get there. And it's like, who's, you know, who's, who, who, who can, who can outlast who? You're either, you know, you're, you're selling someone or you're being sold. I mean, it's that same. And so with the evolution of social media and other strategies now to create a relationship, you go, well, you know, it's creating content. Well, yeah, but why are we creating content, right? Is to build a relationship. It's like, oh, rather than meet somebody in the bar and I don't want to be gauche, but hey, would you like to, you know, get married or. That's the nicer way, right? And boom, without knowing anything about the person, do I even like them? Do I? Is there any basis for relationship here at all? And you're making an offer absolutely blind to being, to being in a.

Ralph Watkins [00:12:08]:
Well, first let's get some coffee and let's talk to each other and see do we? Do we? Is there any basis for any kind of relationship? You know, so there's, you know, the whole, the whole thing has evolved so much now that when you do it properly, you spend your time talking to people who've reached out to you. I mean, from where I came from, it is like nirvana. Like you're not just overcoming this tidal wave of resistance, you know, having to put on an armor suit and just, and just withstand this onslaught of contempt, if you will, but actually have people reach out to you. And the reason they're doing it is because you've built a relationship. They know, they like, they trust you. They know the value that they bring, that you bring. And they see a hole in their business shaped like that value. So they reach out to you and ask if you can help them.

Ralph Watkins [00:13:08]:
It's a world Apart, it's a different realm, it's a different plane of existence in business.

Robert Fillyaw [00:13:16]:
And you're not, you're not spending gobs and gobs of money to do it. And you can reach, to your point, tens of thousands of people once you get groundswell and a great following.

Ralph Watkins [00:13:29]:
Right. Yeah. So kind of just some, Some key points. I mean, was there any. Should we just kind of go into some of these kind of advantages and why it's automatically going this way?

Robert Filja [00:13:43]:
Yeah. So the, the why behind it and you know, the. Maybe a little bit of the how not to get too granular there, but you know, then what you're seeing in terms of the actual results, like in, in, you know, some comparison and contrast between the two, you touched on a little bit, but just a little deeper in that.

Ralph Watkins [00:14:02]:
Yeah. So there's, there's, there's kind of six points and I don't know how much time we have here. We don't have to make a career out of talking about each one. But I think there's, there's kind of, kind of six areas where, where this evolution place. And one is the idea of customer centricity in building trust. So the traditional interruption marketing, although you psych yourself in and you get brainwashed believing that that's just the way it is, but it feels intrusive because being on the other end, we live in a place where if our home phone rings, we're annoyed it's a solicitor. Yeah, yeah, I am annoyed because I know it's a solicitor. I'm like, let's just change our number.

Ralph Watkins [00:14:52]:
Well, that's no good because we'll get other. All the numbers are getting called.

Robert Filja [00:14:56]:
You know, I don't even have a home phone. I was going to say, I'm impressed you still have a home phone, Ralph.

Ralph Watkins [00:15:00]:
Okay, don't. I have said a hundred times, let's just ditch it. Well, no, because we live out in the sticks and losing power is not an uncommon thing here. And she wisely says, and if we lose power, then we got no cell phone. We're completely cut off. Right. We must, we must have a landline. Except when Helene came through, when there was even no landline.

Ralph Watkins [00:15:22]:
Yeah, I mean, there was nothing. I mean, we're talking about being cut off, but that's again, another story. So. But that attraction marketing, conversely, focuses on providing value, solving problems, and building a genuine relationship with potential customers. Are you going to do business with everyone with whom you build a relationship? Of course not. Okay, but. But it's not. We're not Building the relationships to get something from them.

Ralph Watkins [00:15:53]:
That's big, that's a big deal. Yeah, isn't it? You know, you're building the relationship because it's, it's the right thing to do. If you're in business, do you really want to help people or do you just want to make a buck and screw everybody who cares whether it's good for them? I made money. And so obviously that's a short sighted view. By the way, then your reputation precedes you. They can smell you coming in. Not in a good way.

Robert Filja [00:16:32]:
Yeah, right.

Ralph Watkins [00:16:33]:
Yeah. So I mean, creating that relationship again, it's focusing on genuine relationships. It fosters trust and loyalty which are invaluable, you know, in today's landscape. We've, we've, we can all agree, you know the old coaching program, people do business with people that they know that they like and that they trust. That is a three legged stool. Any one of those legs are missing, the stool falls over. Right. If any one of those three is missing, the stool falls over.

Ralph Watkins [00:17:06]:
So, so when you offer helpful content, insights, entertainment, or whether people are likely to engage with your brand willingly and that creates a positive perception, makes them more receptive to your offerings when they are ready to buy, not when you're ready to sell, but when they're ready. Which one of you just mentioned that this is not. It's a lot less expensive to do this. This is, it's not expensive. Yeah, because while, while cold calling and interruption marketing can yield some results, often has a low conversion rate and can be really resource intensive. Right. But conversely, the attraction marketing, when executed strategically, can bring you higher quality leads and better ROI because you're attracting individuals who are already interested in what you're offering. So you're speaking to a more qualified audience.

Ralph Watkins [00:18:01]:
I mean even, even way back when we were trying to like, well, build a herd and I was talking to our, to our friend Carl, right? And he's like, well, what's the list? Who cares? It's a list. If the list is big enough, frickin make your offer and the ones who want it will speak up. He goes, dude, would you rather have a list of a thousand rando people out here who may or may not need what you have, care about it, want about it, or a thousand people who are already users of the type of thing that you have who would much more likely be interested in. Oh, I can see, yeah, that would make a lot more sense.

Robert Fillyaw [00:18:40]:
Okay, well the Facebook ad that got me was the caveman that were like, I don't know, carrying a kill. And then someone else had a wheel, and someone was pushing a wheel, and I think they said, you know, check this out. And they said, we don't have time for that. And they're struggling, like dragging this carcass of a mammoth or something like that. That's what got me. And it kept coming up on my Facebook feed. And then finally I clicked on it for my free strategy session.

Ralph Watkins [00:19:07]:
Robert.

Robert Filja [00:19:07]:
Free strategy.

Ralph Watkins [00:19:08]:
Free strategy session. By the way, that just hidden deep inside of what you said, there is a really key point. It kept coming up on my feed. So did you click on it the first time you saw it?

Robert Fillyaw [00:19:20]:
I probably saw it like 30 times before I clicked on. I said, damn this, Damn these cavemen. I'm gonna check this out. And, you know, each, each ad probably cost you like a fraction of a penny. So it was money well spent.

Ralph Watkins [00:19:35]:
So, but, but that's, that's just another example of this. When you build the relationship, you are getting repeated exposure to the audience that you're looking for. You know, I've heard that the, for years that, you know, people, they need to be touched. You know, what? Seven. I've heard eight. I've heard a dozen now. Maybe it is 25 or 30 times in some way before they respond because now there's just, there's no end to the flow of, of things that are coming in. So it, it's a, it's a lot of touching.

Ralph Watkins [00:20:10]:
And, you know, typically, you know, people reach out. 80% of people make two or three calls and they're done two or three touches. Well, I tried it three times. They're not interested, Right. So they're nowhere near the amount of times it takes now just to, to get the people to engage. But, man, when they do and they're interested, it's a whole, it's a whole different thing.

Robert Filja [00:20:32]:
Yeah.

Ralph Watkins [00:20:34]:
You also mentioned one of you that with social media now, you know, before you make a cold call or you send a letter to a person, you're done. Like, what's you want to touch? You got, you got to do something else now next time.

Robert Filja [00:20:55]:
Right?

Ralph Watkins [00:20:55]:
But social media and in, within social media, I'll certainly include YouTube on that. By the way, there's a fantastic book out there I highly recommend. I've got no, you know, there's no affiliate, no nothing. But I highly, highly, highly recommend the book. It's called Passive Prospecting.

Robert Fillyaw [00:21:13]:
Passive. I'm writing that down.

Ralph Watkins [00:21:15]:
Passive Passive Prospecting by Levi Lasik. L A s. I don't know. There's a Z and a C and A, A and a K. Lasik is something Levi. Look for passive prospect. Look by Levi. Right.

Ralph Watkins [00:21:30]:
So this guy and his buddy are in the Dallas Fort Worth area back during the pandemic. It's like, well, let's, let's open a real estate office. Good. What kind of competition we have? Well, let's see. In Greater DFW, there's only like 44,000 other realtors, right? It's like, well, how are we going to find people? So somebody said, well, you ought to look at YouTube. So he starts doing homework on YouTube. Cut to the chase. Now, I don't know.

Ralph Watkins [00:21:57]:
He's made 7, 8, 10 million in commissions. Like their first year, I believe they did 800,000 or maybe broke a million in their first year. Now, after six months, there was almost nothing to look at. I think it was four months before they got a call. Right. But then the next six months was a title. So why is it? It's because the content out on social media, you make a video, you make a post. These things are, they are cumulative.

Ralph Watkins [00:22:37]:
And ultimately, if you're using some video channel, it doesn't have to be YouTube. It can be any other kind of thing. But if you have places out here, it is the second largest search engine of any search engine, YouTube. So, like, the owners don't like them. Whatever. This beside the point, okay? But when things get out here, you'll, you'll get so much content out here that's now marketing for you 24 hours a day. And it just stays up there. It does way more marketing than you could possibly do on your own if you're still going back the old, you know, like carrying the bucket of water from the river to the town rather than having the, you know, the, the water course with a mill that, you know, in the wheel that runs it and brings all the water in.

Ralph Watkins [00:23:22]:
So, so social media, it's, it's, it, it builds and it's cumulative. Okay? It's also, it, it's way easier to measure because every one of these sites now has, has all sorts of metrics that you can look at. And you can see how many views did this get? How many clicks did this get, how many, you know, what kind came from that, right? You can look and see. It'll go, oh, this one has a conversion of that. That one has a conversion of this with some of the really cool AI, which is a, this particular kind of AI is, is more than we'll have time to get into today. But it'll go, oh, here's the campaign you're doing. This is the 10 variants of the email that went out. Yeah.

Ralph Watkins [00:24:05]:
Ditch number two, seven, six, eight and nine. Yeah, get rid of those. They're not working. Create some more. Right. So, so it's, it's data driven analytics, so you can constantly and easily now be looking at what's not working so that you can dispense with that and experiment with something until you find something that is working. And really the marketing, it's simply experimenting your way to success.

Robert Fillyaw [00:24:36]:
And it's all free. It's just time and some video equipment. You know, the video equipment can be your phone.

Robert Filja [00:24:46]:
Trial and error through time and effort.

Ralph Watkins [00:24:49]:
You know, people talk about this and we get, we get kind of sick of hearing about it. The technology that's in the phone, I don't know, it's like a million times greater than the computers that put the man on the moon in the, in.

Robert Fillyaw [00:25:02]:
The crazy, absolutely crazy.

Ralph Watkins [00:25:05]:
Like the sum of all knowledge, every book. Right. And now with, with the AI, you know, little partners that you can talk to. It's like you literally have a PhD in everything in the palm of your hand. You know, I had, we had some people playing cards. This is a real quick one. And Great artist Michael McDonald comes on person goes, yeah, I was never impressed with him. He's a one hit wonder.

Ralph Watkins [00:25:32]:
I went, I'm sorry, I opened up grok, right. With people sitting around the table. Hey, how you doing? Good. Hey, what can I do for you today? Hey, what if you can give me a quick list of all the Michael McDonald hits, including the time is with the doobies. Oh, Michael McDonald. Isn't he awesome? Sure. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Like, I don't know, 12 or 15 hits, right? Yeah.

Ralph Watkins [00:25:55]:
So what would you say to somebody who says maybe he's a one hit wonder, starts laughing, right? The AI, it's like, it's like I don't have to say it, I just have them say it.

Robert Fillyaw [00:26:06]:
And it's like an objective third party. That is one problem with, you know, search engines. And now AI, it settles all arguments. And really knowledgeable and intelligent people like Robert and I just aren't. We don't have it like we used to because we could, we could usually end arguments, right. And now we can't because the Internet and now AI is destroying our place in society.

Robert Filja [00:26:33]:
If we use it to our advantage though, Dave, it just makes us more smart.

Ralph Watkins [00:26:37]:
Yeah, I like. And ending the argument by, by often by talking louder.

Robert Filja [00:26:43]:
Yes.

Robert Fillyaw [00:26:44]:
That's A Dave that only works with politics. That only works with politics.

Robert Filja [00:26:49]:
Yeah. Dave tries to end the argument with I will fight you. Which never. I'm like okay, let's go.

Robert Fillyaw [00:26:56]:
That's fake news. That's not a true story.

Ralph Watkins [00:26:59]:
So the last point I was going to make on here is I guess I just went through a bunch of these and didn't really number them here. So I think the first one was that consumer centric and building trust. Number two, increased effectiveness and return on investment scalability is number three. Data driven optimization. Number four, adaptability. Oh well that's the idea. Number five, you know the digital landscape, honestly it's, it's constantly evolving and it's, it's not only is it constantly evolving, the pace at which it's evolving continues to accelerate. So attraction marketing encourages adaptability.

Ralph Watkins [00:27:44]:
Markers are con marketers. They're continuously learning new platforms, tools, strategies. Man, you can become an expert in something and feel like you really got it nailed. Guess what? There's a new platform out here, probably now you haven't heard of it, that smokes what you just spent a whole bunch of time learning about. It's like oh geez. So I think a person would be, would is, is much better off if you're willing to look to be an early adopter, try something out, see if it's good for you. If it's not, ditch it, move on.

Robert Filja [00:28:17]:
Right.

Ralph Watkins [00:28:17]:
But, but not making changes. We see it all the time. We'll come along. You know, even in the, in the, I know you've had it in the coaching. I don't even wife to learn all this new stuff. You know, I provide good service and what the heck, these whippersnappers are out here and they're doing like twice as many closings. I don't get it.

Robert Fillyaw [00:28:35]:
Well, you know, that's what I was going to say. You get someone with a great personality who's good on camera, who can communicate their value proposition and it's no 1 local in Pittsburgh. But I've looked at like these like mortgage like social media stars and they have like 14 months experience, three years experience. So you know they've not gone through the fire. They probably don't know a whole lot, but it doesn't matter. People trust them and they have the people probably internally on their team or at their company that can take care of all the mortgage related stuff and they're making gobs of money because they're good on camera. They can convey a message and trust and they bring value. It's like Like, I worry and that's why I'm trying to keep up with like, AI and videos, which I'm not doing a good job of.

Robert Fillyaw [00:29:22]:
Like, then I'm going to get swallowed up. Like I, we do give good service. We, we do run seven days a week. It doesn't matter anymore. That's, that's just like the minimum with a lot of, you know, customers, partners, realtors, financial planners to get your foot in the door. So it's like we need to keep up with the modern techniques or we're going to get run over. At least that's my personal fear now.

Ralph Watkins [00:29:45]:
I think you're straight on, Robert, what do you think of that?

Robert Filja [00:29:49]:
Yeah, I mean, you see it every day, right? You see the people out there. It's about the content, right? Put more content. Put more content. Put more content to gain that following. And then from there, I love the fact that you're targeting people who are wanting what you're trying to sell. I think that moves the needle so much compared to just, you know, just the shotgun approach like you were talking about.

Ralph Watkins [00:30:13]:
Yeah, brute force marketing.

Robert Filja [00:30:15]:
The brute force, yeah. Well, you know, if I could have the best tacos in the world. But if you don't like tacos or you're not looking for tacos, it doesn't matter. Right. So really finding your customer and making sure you're marketing to them consistently and intentionally is where the move, the needle gets moved. You know, that, that brings me to a question that I was wondering. You know, as we, as we look at kind of this old school interruption marketing and now we look at like the attraction model and how things are moving and how things are changing. Ralph, you've been doing this a long time at a really high level, man.

Robert Filja [00:30:54]:
If you had one piece of marketing advice that you think never goes out of style, is always present and can be utilized, what would that be?

Ralph Watkins [00:31:08]:
Wow. Never goes out of style. Okay, well, you can cut technology from that because that's going out of style as quick as it's, you know, it's as quick as it's coming in. What doesn't go out of style is, is a relationship with the customer.

Robert Filja [00:31:30]:
Okay, I agree.

Ralph Watkins [00:31:30]:
Because if, even if you look at brute force marketing, what all that does is get you past that initial thing. But once you develop the customer, if it's successful, you have a relationship. What social media and attraction marketing is allowing us to do is to radically, you know, increase the rate at which we're able to establish relationships. We can create more of them, many more, and we can do it much more quickly. It, this empowers, and this is really kind of the sixth point here, empowers small business, if you will. It democratizes marketing. Small businesses now with limited budgets can now compete with larger corporations by creating valuable content and engaging with the audience directly. It's, it's, once again, it's the decentralization, if you will, of marketing direct, direct to the customer, cutting out the middleman.

Ralph Watkins [00:32:41]:
But what doesn't go out of style is that, is the relationship. It's a relationship you still, people still do business with people they know like, and trust. I heard something recently and I went, ooh, that was deep. It's not, it's not, it's not the best product or service that always wins. It's the, it's the best known product and service. So getting out there to more people. Yeah. The better, the best known, the most well known can beat the actual best quality because nobody, if nobody knows about it, nobody's using it.

Robert Filja [00:33:21]:
Yeah. So that's a great. You know, one thing we talk about is just being consistent with it. People are uncomfortable with it. They don't know where to start. Right. And I go back to the, to the thing we've talked about in the past. Anything worth doing is worth doing badly.

Robert Filja [00:33:36]:
Right. Like, just get started. You'll get better at it. Like, it's, it's. At some point you just gotta jump in and start.

Ralph Watkins [00:33:45]:
So on that topic, love to share an idea with you because my, my wife.

Robert Fillyaw [00:33:50]:
Let's hear it. Yeah.

Ralph Watkins [00:33:52]:
Yes. Well, we were, as we were laying, all we were doing was laying in bed. Okay. I mean, we're getting ready to go to bed. That's it. It was, we're laying there and we're talking about, yeah, but what do you, how do you. That all sounds well and good, but what. Step one, step two, step three, people are sitting here going, I don't know what to do first.

Ralph Watkins [00:34:15]:
I get up in the morning and I do what? Okay, well, your, your previous guest, who's a brilliant dude. Rich. Right. One of the things he spoke about, and I really loved it now he spoke in the, in the context because he's done a lot of stuff on LinkedIn and. Awesome. He's spot on. Right. But I think this applies whether it's on LinkedIn or a different social platform.

Ralph Watkins [00:34:39]:
When he talks about how you reach out to people. Okay. People are. We've heard it, we've heard it taught. Every single time you have a call to action. Every single time, no matter what the conversation is Always throw in there, hey, remember, you know, I'm this or I'm that, and I can help you with this. You, you got any friends, family, co workers? But like, every single, it's like, really, I, I don't, I'm not, I'm not really convinced of that. Certainly.

Ralph Watkins [00:35:06]:
I don't know if I was ever fully convinced in, in each day that passes, I'm probably less convinced. And one of the things he was talking about is that when you reach out, if you take a look at all the content you do well, you got about half of it. 50% is value content. Not just mindless crap, but actually little things that can bring value from some aspect, some angle, something that will help them in their business, help them be a better, you know, spouse, parent, person, citizen, you know, whatever they do. Right. 50% of what you do is about value. 30% of the content is, is, is personal or people. Maybe it's, it's some story from your past that has a relevance or can be plugged in somehow or it's, it.

Ralph Watkins [00:36:00]:
But it's, it's of a, it's like of a personal nature. So that's, that's 80%. What's left is 20%. 20% could be more direct and have a call to action, but that's one message out of, out of five. Almost showed I was bad at man. One message out of four. That's 20.

Robert Fillyaw [00:36:18]:
I was rooting for you there.

Robert Filja [00:36:19]:
Yeah, we had your back, Ralph.

Ralph Watkins [00:36:23]:
One message out of five actually has a call to action. The rest is helpful or interesting in some other way, but it engages and it lets people know you're, you're not just there beating on them for a sale or for a referral, but you're, you're, you're deliver. You're paying it forward with some kind of value and not standing there with your hand out. Okay, great. What's in the 50 and what's in the 30? What? You know, what's in the. Like these people don't know. Like, is there a, is there a blueprint? Well, we sort of have, we've created various kinds of blueprints. But now it's so easy for anyone to create their own using AI.

Ralph Watkins [00:37:06]:
But I don't know how to use AI, you know? Well, you almost can't not use it these days. I mean, it's built into Walk, Run.

Robert Fillyaw [00:37:16]:
Just open up account. Yeah, open a free account with Chat, GPT or GROK and just start playing around. That's what I did.

Ralph Watkins [00:37:26]:
Ask it a question.

Robert Fillyaw [00:37:27]:
Yeah, right.

Ralph Watkins [00:37:29]:
Either of these. Now, I've been a student of Spanish for years. It's like I love doing puzzles. Well, to me, languages. It's like a puzzle that actually has a use, you know, like you learn. I love how things work together like that. Well, now I can just open up one of these agents and talk to them in Spanish and they'll respond to me and they don't get frustrated with me or laugh at me for mispronunciation or for mispronunciation. Right.

Ralph Watkins [00:37:56]:
So it just, it's like the perfect tutor. Well, how'd you learn to do that? I said, do you speak Spanish? You can talk to each of these things now. They each have a voice and they'll talk to you as a person. Right. So I created for this person, you know, in case anybody still goes. Yeah, I know all about it, but I'm just intimidated by it. Here, here's. Here's a 30 second overview on AI.

Ralph Watkins [00:38:21]:
Okay, 30 second overview is you walk into a library that has every book ever written and the librarian who's there has read all of them and knows what content is on every page of every book and can tell you if you just asked. And the better response that you get is based. The response you get is based on the question you ask. So if you want a really great response, ask a great question. I don't know what question to ask. Guess what? You can ask that too. I love going into these.

Robert Fillyaw [00:38:58]:
I'm going to steal this, Robert. I'm going to steal the, you know, the librarian and library.

Robert Filja [00:39:01]:
That's a great analogy. That's probably the best analogy I've heard for AI Brother.

Ralph Watkins [00:39:05]:
Isn't that great? And you can go imagine you say to the librarian, okay, so I got this project I'm working on and I'm trying to do this. I know that if I ask you a really good question, you can help me. What's the best question to ask you to get this response? Oh, you just ask me. It will give you the prompt. Yeah, right. So it's all. When you, you get into AI, you go, it's all about prompt engineering. Another.

Ralph Watkins [00:39:34]:
Another technical mumbo jumbo word. No, that just means writing a good prompt. And if you just ask it, it will write the prompt and you copy and paste it and put it right back, right back into that engine.

Robert Filja [00:39:47]:
Yeah, it's powerful. It can be used for more than just terminator AI memes. That's like, yes, you don't have to.

Ralph Watkins [00:39:54]:
Kill people or change the world or dent the universe or anything. Like that, right? So I was thinking on the lines of this 50%, 30%, 20%. So I, I sat and said, give me the prompt. Right? I, well, I did write this. I need to create some social media content, preferably with video. I, I have taken a couple little courses says you always tell it what it is, what's its role. So I wrote, you are a world class social media content creator and designer. We need a balanced content mix with 50% being value content like educational tips, marketing insights, actionable advice, helps our followers solve problems or make other better decisions.

Ralph Watkins [00:40:35]:
By the way, I slap copied that verbatim off of the slides from Richard's class when he's talking about that 50%. What is that? Well, it's like educational tips, marketing insights, right? 30% should be human content, like stories, behind the scenes glimpses, authentic personal insights that build connection. The remaining 20% should be direct content like recruiting messages, product or service highlights, clear calls to action that drive specific objectives. And then I wrote create a list of questions for me to answer that will help you create this content for me. Oh, in about four seconds it spit out a list of things that if I answered it could go back and create all that stuff for me. And you go, oh yeah, I need, I need a piece of content. You know, I want a little video, a 90 second video each week or a 30 second short. You know, I need a script for a 30 second short video each week.

Ralph Watkins [00:41:37]:
Or I need, I need some posts for LinkedIn or for this platform or for that platform. I need one a day, right. So I need 20 for the month. Boom. It writes them. You have to come back in an hour and see what it came up with. You don't have time to look away from the screen and it's done.

Robert Filja [00:41:59]:
It's there. Yeah, that's awesome.

Ralph Watkins [00:42:01]:
Yeah. So anything you could know and everything you don't even know, you could know or would need to know, it's, it's at the tip, literally at the tips of our fingers or in the palm of our hands. So if there's, if we're talking about this and you go, yeah, I don't know how to do that. Ask.

Robert Filja [00:42:24]:
That's gold.

Ralph Watkins [00:42:25]:
Tomorrow you just ask, man. And it will tell you.

Robert Filja [00:42:28]:
Yeah.

Ralph Watkins [00:42:29]:
So.

Robert Filja [00:42:32]:
We always come into these, Ralph, with a goal of our listeners having one or two actionable takeaways from the, you know, that they gain from the podcast. So I think you probably just laid out one of the best that we've, we've had as a takeaway. So everyone listening out there. If you, if you don't use this, if you don't take what Ralph just said and go do it, you're a like right there.

Ralph Watkins [00:42:57]:
I like to say they're flat ass missing the boat, but, but is more direct. It's like bam. Yeah, exactly.

Robert Filja [00:43:03]:
So there's your takeaway, there's your aha moment.

Ralph Watkins [00:43:09]:
Yeah.

Robert Filja [00:43:09]:
So we're, we're coming up on, I'm wrapping it up here. It's been amazing, Ralph. I mean you've seen this go from cold calls to content, everything in between. And you know, I think it's, I'm on the same page with you and it's just a great reminder that while the tools and the methods may change, it's really the connection and the relationship that drives everything. And really this is just different ways to achieve that connection and that relationship. So thank you for that reminder to all of us.

Ralph Watkins [00:43:39]:
By the way, one more transparent confession here. About 10 minutes before our call, I went on to Grok and I put in this prompt. In about 10 minutes I'm going to be a guest on a podcast where we're going to be talking about the evolution of marketing from straight up cold calling or interruption marketing to attraction. I put it in. You're a world class content creator. Give me a list of points to make about why we shouldn't fear this evolution, including some, some stats to back up the points. And that's what we've been talking about all day. And it gave me that 10 minutes before we got on this call.

Robert Fillyaw [00:44:13]:
Is this a real person, Robert, or some sort of cyborg? What's going on?

Robert Filja [00:44:20]:
Ralph's over there just terminating all of us.

Ralph Watkins [00:44:24]:
Yeah, so actually I, in, I've been so into this. There's a, you know, there's several people now have little AI courses. I had bought one sometime and started to go through it and it was apparently for people that didn't know how to turn on a computer. So I had to get through several lessons before I found something that was worth doing. But yeah, I'm actually, since there's nothing else going on in my life, actually just started a new enterprise that's actually an AI agency that helps businesses to integrate AI into their marketing, sales operations, fulfillment, hiring, all sorts of stuff. Just because it's, there's, there's, there's literally no end now and it's, it's accelerating faster than anybody can keep their heads around. It's crazy.

Robert Fillyaw [00:45:13]:
Yeah, it is crazy.

Ralph Watkins [00:45:15]:
This is awesome, guys.

Robert Filja [00:45:16]:
This is how we get Skynet.

Robert Fillyaw [00:45:19]:
Well, I'm gonna get off the podcast and ask AI what I need to do the rest of the day.

Ralph Watkins [00:45:24]:
Great idea.

Robert Filja [00:45:25]:
I'm gonna go build. I'm gonna go build a recruiting assistant. AI There you go.

Ralph Watkins [00:45:30]:
100 yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. 100. So, guys, it's always a pleasure hanging with you. Thank you so much for the invitation.

Robert Filja [00:45:38]:
Thanks so much for your time. We appreciate you coming on. Everyone out there, thanks for tuning into this episode of Lending Leadership with the Mortgage Pros. Be sure to smash that, like, button and leave us a glowing review. We appreciate you guys, and we'll see you on the next episode.

Robert Fillyaw [00:45:54]:
Thank you so much.

Ralph Watkins [00:45:56]:
Take care.